NOMINATIONS

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 6, 1969

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE,

Washington, D.C. The committee met at 10:45 a.m., pursuant to call, in room 4232, New Senate Office Building, Senator Ralph W. Yarborough (chairman of the committee), presiding.

Present: Senators Yarborough, Randolph, Nelson, Mondale, Eagleton, Prouty, Dominick, Schweiker, Bellmon, and Saxbe.

Also present: Senator Percy.

Staff members present: Robert O. Harris, staff director.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

The first witness is Dr. James D. Hodgson, California, nominated to be Under Secretary of Labor, and we have three Assistant Secretaries and the Director of the Women's Bureau.

If you will all come around at one time as a panel, since you are all in the same department.

The first will be Dr. James D. Hodgson, nominated to be Under Secretary of Labor. We have here a biographical sketch of Dr. Hodgson. We will place that in the record at this time. (The document referred to follows:)

BIOGRAPHY OF JAMES D. HODGSON

Born: Dawson, Minnesota, December 3, 1915.

Wife: Maria M. Denend, of San Francisco.

Children: Mrs. R. J. Nachman of Ann Arbor, Mich., Frederic J. Hodgson of Los Angeles.

Degrees: A.B., University of Minnesota, 1938; Graduate work, University of Minnesota, 1940, and the University of California at Los Angeles, 1947-48.

Jobs held: 1938-40: Junior executive trainee, the Dayton Co. (Department store), Minneapolis, Minn.; 1940-41: Supervisor, Youth Employment, Department of Employment, State of Minnesota, St. Paul, Minn.; 1941-43: Personnel clerk, Lockheed Aircraft Corp., Burbank, Calif.; 1946-68: Numerous industrial relations positions with Lockheed, including that of Corporate Director for Industrial Relations (1962-68); 1968: Corporate Vice President for Industrial Relations, Lockheed Aircraft Corp., Burbank, Calif.

Other positions: 1958-62: Community Advisor, Institute of Industrial Relations, U.C.L.A.; 1965-67: Consultant, State of California Committee on Automation and Manpower; 1962: Member, Executive Committee, Los Angeles Mayor's Labor-Management Committee.

Membership in professional organizations: Aerospace Industries Association Industrial Relations Committee; Town Hall Industrial Relations Planning Committee (Los Angeles); National Industrial Conference Board; American Management Association.

Writings: "Employing the Unemployables", Harvard Business Review, September 1968; "Automation", University of Michigan Quarterly, 1963.

Military activities: 1943-46: U.S. Navy, Air Combat Intelligence Officer, reaching the rank of lieutenant.

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Hodgson, do you have a statement?

(1)

STATEMENT OF JAMES D. HODGSON, OF CALIFORNIA, UNDER SECRETARY OF LABOR-DESIGNATE

Mr. HODGSON. The first statement I have is that I had not expected to be promoted to doctor. Just maybe Mr. Hodgson; thank you. The CHAIRMAN. I don't see how you missed it, Mr. Hodgson, with your accomplishments.

Mr. HODGSON. I look forward to serving the administration as Under Secretary of Labor.

First of all, there is the opportunity of working with such an established professional as Dr. Shultz, Secretary.

Those of us who have been practitioners in this field for a number of years have come to regard him as one of the real towering figures in our domain. So, the opportunity for service with him is certainly a distinct plus.

Second, I think we would all regard "people" problems as among the major problems of our time. The Department of Labor has certain responsibilities in this area and being able to contribute to the resolution of those problems also is something that a person cannot but view with favor.

I

guess that is all that I have to say at the outset. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Randolph.

Senator RANDOLPH. Mr. Hodgson, what do you think is the challenge to you? I heard what you said. What is the challenge that you will have when you undertake this job?

Mr. HODGSON. There are two distinct areas that I view as challenges that I would like to address myself to.

One is that I am impressed with the efficacy of collective bargaining as a worthwhile institution. I would like to direct my energies toward preserving that institution and improving it.

Second, we have the tremendous problem these days of bringing into the productive work force people who have not been employed and have not been able to contribute. I would like to assist the Department to continue to exert its energies in this direction.

Those are the two primary challenges.

Senator RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman, I am appreciative of Mr. Hodgson's response.

I have reviewed his qualifications as I am sure the members of the committee have. I am delighted to endorse this man's nomination to the Senate.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

Senator Prouty.

Senator PROUTY. Mr. Hodgson, I am intrigued by the title of an article written by you which appeared in the Harvard Business Review in September of last year called Employing the Unemployables. I have not had an opportunity to read that article, but I certainly will. I think this is one of the most pressing problems facing the country today at a domestic level. I am delighted that you are so interested in that particular aspect of it.

I might say, Mr. Chairman, that I-or members of my staff-have had an opportunity to visit with all the people who are appearing before us this morning. It is significant that they were not selected

on the basis of political considerations. Some of them are Democrats; some may be Independents; maybe one or two are Republicans, I don't know. [Laughter.]

But, as we glance over their biographies, we find that they appear to be exceedingly well-qualified. They have the expertise and knowledge to bring about solutions to some of the great problems which are involved in the department with which they are going to be associated.

I hope this means that we are going to have a high degree of objectivity and fairness toward both labor and business. If they can bring these two great forces together, recognizing their common problems and the importance of finding solutions in the interest of our national welfare, then this country is going to be well-served.

I am very happy to support each one of them and to wish them all well in their new responsibilities.

The CHAIRMAN. I will say, Senator Prouty, I concur in your statement. I am tremendously impressed with the qualifications of the people Secretary Shultz has recruited and who will hold the top offices in the Labor Department. The administration is to be commended for the people they are able to find and bring into the administration.

Senator Mondale.

Senator MONDALE. No questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Bellmon.

Senator BELLMON. Just having come through a rather bitter political campaign, I am not prone to be quite as nonpartisan as my Republican colleagues here but I didn't inquire about the political affiliations of Mr. Hodgson. I would like to say, though, sometimes when you read books about how to raise children you find they inevitably have been written by spinsters and bachelors.

In connection with your book on employment, can you tell us about your experience in this field?

Mr. HODGSON. Yes, and I would not be so immodest as to claim it as a book. It is a reasonably short tract in which I tried to describe a program initiated by a company with which I was previously associated.

The Lockheed Aircraft Corp. chose to undertake what amounted to an experimental effort to train and employ a number of people over a period of a year who would not have otherwise qualified for industrial employment, either in the Lockheed Co. or probably in most other companies, and, through a process of special training, counseling, and indoctrination, make them productive members of the Lockheed work force.

We tried this in two different locations and under several different circumstances. We felt we made measurable progress. Actually, it was rewarding beyond our most optimistic anticipation. That was the reason I thought it worth reporting to the business community through the Harvard Business Review.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Hodgson, I am very pleased to hear you say that you are dedicated to the preservation of free collective bargaining. You know we have very many voices in this country that say free collective bargaining has failed and we have to have some kind of mandatory labor service, that we have to substitute mandatory controls.

I think if we look at the gross number of man-days of work lost in America due to lockouts and strikes, it is a mere fraction of the number of man-days lost due to injuries from work, which testifies to the fact that free collective bargaining has not failed.

Certain types of disputes over free collective bargaining in transportation and other industries bring about such loss and discomfort on the public that it causes dissatisfaction at times with it. But I think it is the best system that man has devised.

I think if free collective bargaining fails and free labor fails, then democracy fails. Free enterprise and the freedom of choice of man make this free enterprise system of ours so much greater for mankind than any other system the world has ever seen.

I notice you come from the business side of this where you have had labor disputes; you have been negotiator; you have been through this; you have had experience with negotiations and you come out of that dedicated to the free collective bargaining. I think it is easier than your second objective of bringing the chronic unemployed into full employment. I commend you for your determination to do this. It is something that is badly needed in our society. I think you have put your finger on two big problems facing the Department.

We have many departments of Government, but you, as Under Secretary, will be largely presiding in the actual running of the Department of Labor under the Secretary; you might say where the friction point comes in our society-who gets the jobs, what percentage of the people are hired and under what conditions.

How do you divide the fruits of this great productive system we have between management and the others that are at work? The line merges more all the time. As we have fewer and fewer so-called bluecollar workers and more white-collar workers in industry, with computers and automation, the division of fruits of that labor become more difficult. I wish you well in that tough job.

Mr. HODGSON. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. The next witness is Mr. Weber. To introduce him. is the distinguished Senator from Illinois, Senator Percy.

STATEMENT OF ARNOLD R. WEBER, OF ILLINOIS, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF LABOR-DESIGNATE

Senator PERCY. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, I would like to say I haven't the slightest idea of what Dr. Weber's political affiliations are. I feel when we are faced with emergency situations such as the longshoremen's strike and others, we need to be looking for individuals with professional competence rather than political affiliations to serve in these particularly sensitive

areas.

Perhaps the quality and value of the services a man renders on a job can be roughly measured by the attitudes of those he leaves behind.

As a trustee at the University of Chicago, I can only report the deep regret felt at the university from the president on down to the students, at the loss of Dr. Weber. I think that the university did everything it could to convince him to stay. It was left to Dr. Weber, however, to make the final determination as to where he could best use his talents. I think his professional career is enriched by the achievements and

marked by the values derived from a rich cross-fertilization in many facets of commercial and academic experience. The caliber of his academic background is evidenced by a B.A. in economics and a M.A. in industrial relations from the University of Illinois, followed by a doctorate at MIT. Dr. Weber has served as a visiting professor in industrial relations at Stanford University in California. He returned to the Midwest in 1966 to become director of faculty research of the graduate school of business at the University of Chicago.

He has had the benefit of a widespread exposure to the labormanagement field and its myriad problems. He was consultant to the President's Advisory Commission on Labor-Management Policy in 1964; consultant for the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development in 1965; Vice Chairman of the Federal Task Force on Improving the Employment Services, 1965 to 1966; Chairman of the Research Advisory Commission, U.S. Employment Service, 1966 to 1967; Chairman of the Task Force on Faculty Participation in Academic Governance, 1966 to 1967; Director of the Brookings Institution Study of Unions, Collective Bargaining, and Public Employment in 1967; and, finally, for many years he has translated philosophy into policy in his capacity as arbitrator on various panels for the American Arbitration Association.

Anyone who wants to ascertain just what Dr. Weber believes in and stands for has but to turn to the record provided by the various articles and books he has written. Moreover, he is considered within academic circles as being one of the truly brilliant experts in the area of labor and industrial relations.

Dr. Weber is a man of great courage and deep convictions. Mr. Chairman, although I am greatly distressed at losing a man of his caliber at the University of Chicago, I am extremely proud to welcome him to the Nation's Capital, introduce him to this distinguished committee, and voice my confirmation of his appointment in the new administration. We need both these qualities in the person of Under Secretary of Labor.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Percy.

At this time, I will place Dr. Weber's biographical sketch in the record.

(The document referred to follows:)

1950: University of Illinois (Economics) B.A.

1952: University of Illinois (Industrial Relations) M.A.

1958: Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Economics) Ph. D.

ACADEMIC EXPERIENCE

1955-57: Instructor in Economics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology. 1957-58: Assistant Professor of Industrial Relations, Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

1958-60: Assistant Professor of Industrial Relations, Graduate School of Business, University of Chicago.

1960-64: Associate Professor of Industrial Relations, Graduate School of Business, University of Chicago.