to almighty God to create out of nothing the more inanimate and lifeless part of heaven and earth, than to compose that variety of excellent creatures, and to infuse that great spirit and soul by which they are respectively instincted or acted.

Answer. That the dint of those Scriptures, nor Penn's arguments built upon them, doth no ways touch the foundation, that earth and water was not eternal, but proveth altogether that they were eternal; and all Penn's arguments built upon those Scriptures, will prove but an idle shift indeed to himself, and all that believe him. And what doth the word create, making or fashioning signify, but the making of the fashion of something that had no frame or fashion before; therefore it is said, that the earth was without form and void, that is, it was void of all form in the beginning, when God began to create, but not void of substance, so God made that which was substance without form into form'; 'so God created the earth, that is, he made that formless earth into form, to set forth the glory of his workmanship, therefore it is said, Heb. xi. 3. Through faith we understand the worlds were framed by the word of God; here we see, that framing is creating or setting the world into such a frame and order, as we see, but this doth not prove, that God had no matter nor substance to make this excellent frame of earth and heaven, and all creatures therein, but proveth to the contrary. got to r974 baviv brownow ended Tigdt Dow end vd zorbod visit

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And you have made a fit comparison yourself, that though a carpenter doth make a door or chest, he fashions it of wood, but he does not make the wood; so it is with God, he hath framed the heavens and the earth, and hath fashioned them, and all creatures else, as we see; but the substance of the earth and water he made them not, no more than the carpenter made the wood; so that this distinction that is counted by learned Penn more fitter for bedlam than men in their wits, is become the chief distinction to bring down the wisdom of the serpent which is so high exalted; and that which Penn quotes, the wisest speech of all, he hath discovered his great ignorance, and the deepest darkness in his mind of all,

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in these words. And, saith he, can they think it was harder to almighty God to create out of nothing the inanimate and lifeless part of heaven and earth, than to compose that variety of excellent creatures, and to infuse that great spirit and soul, by which they are respectively instincted or acted. This is more like Bedlam indeed, than a man of learning; I shall deal truly with you, and with the reader, that we do not only think, but do perfectly know, that it was harder for God to make this vast earth and waters of nothing, than it was to make the firmament of heaven, and all those excellent creatures which he hath made; nay, with reverence to God the Creator, we know he never did nor never could make any thing whatsoever of nothing, for of nothing comes nothing; methinks it is sufficient to satisfy the mind of man, to believe and honor the eternal God, the infinite Creator, in that he hath made such variety of excellent creatures, and man in his own image and likeness of something; and God hath glory enough, in that he hath framed the heavens and the earth out of those two dark substances of earth and water; but the seed of the serpent, such as Penn is, will not honor such a God that cannot make this vast earth and waters of nothing.

Neither did God ever infuse that great spirit and soul into any creature whatsoever; but when God created every living creature by the power of his word speaking, it revived breath of life according to its kind; for if he made their bodies by his word, his word gave them life also so that his great Spirit and Soul, as you call it, was not infused into no creature at all, but within his own body, which is no bigger than a middle-statured man, even the same bigness and height as Christ was of when upon earth; I suppose you may read in the history what stature Christ was of when he was crucified; and whoever believes in a God of a bigger bulk, then he believes in a false god, as most of you Quakers do.

Thus I have given an answer unto those Scriptures and arguments Penn the Quaker bath alledged against earth and water, being an eternal chaos of dark senseless substance;

and for the reader's better information, I shall propound these particulars following.

First, that the substance of earth and water were from all eternity uncreated, senseless, dark and dead matter, like unto water and dust, that have no kind of life, light or virtue in them at all. Secondly, it is an opinion of the learned, that those substances earth and water, were not eternal, but they have imagined that the Creator spake the word and so they came to be; and, after he had given them their being, he formed all things that were made out of them. Thirdly, there is no Scripture that maketh mention of any such thing as God's giving being to earth and water. Fourthly, neither can it be proved by Scripture that God gave being to the vast dead earth, and dark deep water; neither did those two substances of earth and water proceed out of God's mouth, but their being in the original was eternal, and will be eternal. Fifthly, there is not a word throughout the Scriptures that God gave any being or beginning unto dead, dark, senseless earth and water. Sixthly, can Penn tell where God was resident when he gave a being to earth and water, for earth and water were uncreated substances eternally distinct from God. Seventhly, that earth and water were an eternal chaos of confused matter, essentially distinct from. God the Creator. Throughout the Scriptures no man can find one word or tittle in reference to the deep waters its beginning, therefore of necessity it must be eternal. Eighthly, that the waters covered the earth before God began to create, wherefore the earth being as it is in the deep waters, must. needs be one essence eternally with those deep waters, and in the earth before God's Spirit moved upon the waters, and the earth was enclosed as a prisoner in the womb of darkness under the waters, so that the waters were under the earth, and above the earth; and the waters under the earth did bear up the earth, and the earth in the middle did bear up the waters that covered the face of the earth; this was an eternal chaos: earth and, water was eternal in their substance and being.

Thus much in answer to the second point, that earth and water was eternal, and that it is a standing truth, and that Penn, Augustine, and Aristotle, the great philosopher, were in a great error, and were grossly ignorant, to affirm, that God made the substance of earth and water of nothing, and no such great heresies as they themselves did own, in that they judged the truth to be heresies. Who made Augustine a judge of heresies? Not God, I am sure, but he spake as those blind men did at that time, when darkness overspread the earth.'

THE third point Penn calls "old heresy" is, that the soul is generated or begotten by the man and woman with the body, and that the body and soul are inseparable.

In page 16, Penn saith, "That this is contrary to Scripture testimony he will prove." His first proof is, Eccl. xii. 7, the words are these, The spirit to God that gave it. Penn's argument upon these words: saith he, "No carnal generation can bring forth a pure spirit, external matter producing only external matter of its own kind; but (saith he) the soul of man is a spirit, (as the words expressed by Reeve and Muggleton, saith he,) therefore no man gets the soul or spirit of a man when he generates the body." Secondly, Penn saith, "That which returns to God came from God, but the soul of every man turns to God for sentence, and consequently came from him." This is all the Scripture Penn brings to prove the soul is not generated with the body.

Answer. First, that place, Eccl. xii. 7, is no Scripture, as I have showed before, they are the words of Solomon; he was no penman of Holy Writ, neither did he know himself from whence the soul of man came, nor whether the soul goeth, no more than Penn doth; for the soul of a man and the soul of a beast was all one to Solomon, and their breath was all one, and they went both to one place, the one went to God as well as the other; neither had man any pre-eminence

above a beast, in Solomon's judgment; and Penn is of the same mind of Solomon, so that Penn's argument, from that place, signifies nothing to this purpose, that the soul is not generated with the body.

But I shall prove by Scripture, that the soul is generated and begotten by man and woman with the body, as in Gen. i. 28. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. Now I shall not dispute whether a carnal generation can bring forth a pure spirit; but the thing which we say and do affirm is, that the soul of man is begotten in generation with the body, neither can any man get a body in generation without a soul; for if a man doth not beget a soul, then he begets no body at all, so that a body cannot be begotten by man nor beast without life por soul, so that no souls can come forth of the womb without bodies, nor bodies without souls; for if the soul or life be dead when it cometh out of the womb, the body is dead also if the soul be alive, the body is alive also, there is no separating one from the other. Do nos fon birode DLA Zambo si post ell or quicos eint snob iitsi Page 13. Penn's first argument, saith he, Such as is the soul, such mist be that which produceth it; but (saith he) it is spiritual; (and saith) now that which generates the body of man, being only and merely visible matter, it cannot pro duce an intellectual soul or spirit. w dmow gift Ta good ab oli luoz bus stil Answer. That God breathed into man the breath of life, and he became a living soul. Now this breath of life be came life and soul in Adam, and this life and soul became seed in man, for a body without life cannot have any seed in it, for life lies in the seed, and seed lies in the body, else God would not have blessed them with the blessing of increasing and multiplying; to multiply must be by generation in the seed; so that though God breathed into Adam the breath of life, and he became a living soul, mind, God did so to none else; for Adam was made, and not begotten, but all men else are begotten, and not made; as Adam was in full proportion of a man, he did not grow bigger nor higher, than what God made him at the first: but all men since are

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