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IMMIGRATION AND LABOR.

ION.

COMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION,
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Wednesday, January 3, 1923.

The committee this day met, Hon. Albert Johnson (chairman) presiding.
The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. Among the bills before this
mmittee are the following: A bill introduced by Mr. Steenerson, H. R. 11730,
ich proposes to amend the act of May 19, 1921, by adding at the end thereof the
lowing:

"Aliens experienced in agriculture upon filing with the American consul at the
rt of embarkation a statement of such experience and a sworn declaration of intention
either settle upon the public land of the United States and occupy and farm the
me, or to purchase, cultivate, and improve other lands available for such purpose:
ovided, That such alien shall deposit the sum of $200 for himself and each adult"
ember of his family and $50 for each minor child admitted hereunder, said sum or
ms to be repaid to such alien or his successors in interest upon satisfactory proof
at said declaration has been complied with; otherwise said sum or sums to be ap-
ied to the cost of deporting such alien and his family for failure to comply with said
eclaration.

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Another bill is H. R. 7826, introduced by Mr. Perlman, to repeal the act entitled
An act to limit the immigration of aliens into the United States, approved May 19,

21."

"Be it enacted, etc., That the act entitled 'An act to limit the immigration of aliens to the United States,' approved May 19, 1921, be repealed.'

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Those two bills may just as well form the basis of hearings which will be held for ree days at the request of many persons who think there is a shortage of labor of rious kinds in the United States and of societies whose officers have requested that ey be heard. Among those associations are the following: National Association of erchant Tailors of America, American Manufacturers' Association, and in connection th the request of the American Manufacturers' Association are the following: merican Railway Association, American Farm Bureau, American Association of anufacturers, which is the same as the first one; the Chamber of Commerce of the nited States, and the National Conference of State Manufacturers' Associations; so the National Industrial Conference Board, which is comprised of representatives the various associations just named.

To-day representatives of the National Association of Merchant Tailors of America e present and we will hear them as far as we can. I presume that the House will e occupied with a number of roll calls beginning about 12 o'clock.

STATEMENT OF MR. E. TWYEFFORT, NEW YORK CITY.

Mr. TWYEFFORT. My address is 580 Fifth Avenue, New York City.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you a member of the National Association of Merchant Tailors f America?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I am.

Mr. SIEGEL. How many members are there in the association?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. About 800. Mr. Chairman, I certainly feel that we are indebted you for the opportunity of appearing before your commmittee, and I want to thank ou for your consideration in giving us this second day, the previous one being before te holiday interim. There is nothing selfish in our appearance here; we have no ax grind. We come as a matter of duty, representing the great public, perhaps, above I things. We endeavor to consider the stand that the President took when he coined e word, "normalcy, "in our endeavor to return to it. We endeavor to live up to at in all ways possible. We have been helped by the introduction of the tariff bill. 'e considered that the emergency tariff was a sufficient guardian to prevent the idless dumping of goods into the country, and we proceeded upon the ground that would show that we were earnest in the matter by making substantial reduction

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in the prices of our goods, hoping that Congress would enable us through legislati to back it up. Unfortunately, the tariff was introduced and it naturally enhanc the price of goods. In considering our stand we naturally took the public into o confidence, desiring to make our condition suited, as I have stated, to the gener public's welfare. This evidently could not be a tenable ground in view of the co dition that Congress took, and to-day we are handicapped still further by what we ca call a decided shortage of labor in our line of business. It is well understood th American boys do not care to indulge in an apprecticeship in our line of business The educational facilities of the country are such that they can naturally aspire much higher spheres, such as railroad or bank presidents, rather than sit upon a boa and sew for the good of mankind. We have always depended, Mr. Chairman, naturall in conjunction with other trades upon immigration to furnish the workmen for t trade, and until the war came on we found sufficient help to carry on the business the country in our line. The war broke out and naturally every industry suffere owing to the call to the colors, and we had no complaint to make. In fact, we coop ated and threw our sons into it and took our stand as good citizens and good soldie But the war is over and the law which Congress passed was a proper law, becau there was danger that Europe would find an outlet for its extra labor in America. acquiesced in the passage of that law. It was a proper one and its workings un lately have shown that it was a proper law. But we consider, Mr. Chairman, th conditions change and laws must be somewhat elastic in the line of labor. We ha come to the point where we consider that the law has now become a hardship if appli as it is being applied. It is very easy for Congress to extend that law for a year or tw without discussing conditions, perhaps; simply passing it on. But we consider th it is our duty as citizens to come in a little better contact with our law makers. realize the knowledge they have acquired in the many years they have devoted the service of the country. We do not pretend to come here and dictate to them even suggest to them what should be done. We realize that their opportunities to in position to judge are far greater than ours, and yet in our line of business we cor in contact with a great many men from all over the country, men of experience business, men of sound judgment, good citizens, who have the welfare of the count at heart, and who are apt to talk openly in our shops, more so than they would co sidering their individual responsibilities in their lines.

So that we consider that we do not break any rule in coming here except, perha the rule of inefficiency which the usual business man is apt to follow in his relati to the law-making powers. In other words, let the other man do it, and he stic to his business and does not care what is done in Washington. The newspapers, apt to exaggerate and very often are apt to cause or influence legislation which shou be caused or influenced by the business man. He should have that better conta with his Representatives in Washington. I think the time has come at this stage the business of the country where business men should coordinate their busine and cooperate more with the legislative branch of the country. That is what brou us here. We have no attorney. We are simply here as plain business men endeav ing to improve conditions, not especially for ourselves, but for the public at lar You would be surprised, Mr. Chairman, if we were to tell you individually what experience has been during this past six months. For instance, a man would w from Minneapolis saying, "I placed an order with you in August, preparing fort winter, and have not yet received delivery. What is the trouble? Here we have shortage of coal and no clothes to make up for it." Well, we had to plead guilty. had taken the orders thinking we would be able to fill them at the proper time. we had not considered that we would be handicapped in filling those orders by tremendous shortage of labor.

The shortage of labor can be easily explained. Labor has come into its own, since the war is naturally handicapped by advances that have been made in ever line, and as a rule the workmen in our line of business are pretty well financed. the war, considering the drop in exchange, they made up their mind that they b got some money and, perhaps, enough to live on. I have one man in mind who ca to me with a few dollars and said, "Now, what would this represent in France, shipped to France?" Our bookkeeper made up the amount and announced it a little over 100,000 francs. He jumped that high, thought he was a millionaire. Th money was sent to France, and, of course, that money has since depreciated. The CHAIRMAN. Depreciated in France?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. Yes. He did not leave the country, although intending to do but took my advice that it would be just as well to mark time and see what wou happen. To-day he thanks me for giving him that advice. But a great many did have such advice or did not take it, and went abroad, and this law with its que has worked both ways. It has prevented a great many from coming here and it h caused a great many to leave, feeling that they could do better with what they ha

w of the e

aved abroad. In connection with my Y. M. C. A. work I came in contact with quite

gh legislati lly enhan number of foreign young men. Since the war the quota has worked also against blic into hem in coming here. One 1 came in contact with last week, as chairman of our ranch, which is the French branch of the Y. M. C. A. in the city of New York. He o the gene aid to me, "I had great difficulty in getting here and want to know whether you what we can help me. I have a person who has a new discovery in science, in medicine, derstood th which my principal desires me to introduce in this country, but I had great difficulty of business getting through, and if I had not held sufficient funds in my pocket to make good, rally aspire night have been sent back." He said that is the trouble now; the impression has one abroad that there is no use of trying to come to America; that "haven" is closed upon a bo all. That is the impression which we would like to correct. an, natural kmen for France has never lived up to its quota in its admissions, and other desirable counries have not. the busines But the impression has gone abroad that there is no use trying to istry suffeome, and the result is that the doors are closed, by their own way of thinking, against hem, and we know of a great many desirable possible citizens who would like to good sold me here but do not make the effort. Now, if that could be corrected I think it would be a great boon to us, because it would open our doors to a great many desirable law, bec itizens. We would not be true to our citizenship if we asked you to lift the gates workings gainst undesirables, for we would only be making trouble for ourselves in the future nd for the country of which we are proud, but we would ask that the conditions be onsidered, that the law might be made more flexible, according to conditions, and hat when a foreign citizen applies abroad to our accredited consul for admission to ship if aphis country, after proper perusal and medical examination and after delving into r a year or consider is principles, and the consul gives him his visé, he ought to be considered as a future

ct, we coo

America.

Chairman,

Dor.

We

v makers. ave devote ate to the

esirable citizen and admitted as such.

The CHAIRMAN. Desirable future citizen?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I so mean. So that is the object of our visit here, as I have stated

ortunities Pefore.

siness wer

Mr. RAKER. That would be surrendering our power to determine who should be tdmitted, to allow the examination abroad in a foreign country to determine who experienhould enter.

of the con

ey would

xcept, per in his rela -, and hes

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I suppose that is correct, but instead of saying surrendering I hought, perhaps, you might use the other word and say delegate. The United States Consuls. I take it, are representatives of our Government, are they not?

Mr. RAKER. Yes.

Mr. TWYEFFORT. If you have confidence in them, if you appoint qualified men to ct for you, they act as your representatives and in that capacity would be careful newspaper not to visé the papers of a man who might become a danger to the citizenship of this n which sh Country. So that I think that if we do ask this committee to look upon this proposition, - better of making it a flexible entrance into the country according to the conditions of business n the country, it would serve a purpose.

Co

at this sta

e their bus

The CHAIRMAN. Let me clear that up a bit. Our information leads us to believe is what that consuls of the United States have not the authority to select immigrants. They men end have the authority to visé passports and are given the authority to reject or refuse public at visés to those of whom they feel they have knowledge would be undesirable in a ually wh political sense, that is to say, where they have knowledge that a man is likely to be an would an enemy of the country. They have not the power to attempt the carrying out of the reparing provisions of the immigration law, and other countries are inclined to protest that Here we when under treaties we set up consular offices it is not intended that the consular ead guilty officers shall be immigration agents, and that when a consul attempts to act as an proper timmigration agent he exceeds the power granted him in the treaty under which we orders b set up the consular office, which has to be done with the consent of the other GovernA great many people seem to misunderstand that.

ment.

nto its ow Mr. TWYEFFORT. I consider that point and am grateful for your calling my attention n made it to it. I look at it from, our standpoint of citizenship that it would be, perhaps, essenfinanced. tial, that at every important point of embarkation to the United States a representative d that the should be appointed through the creation of a board to regulate those matters, thus mind whe taking that decision, perhaps, away from the representative in the consular service ent in Fand giving it to a member of a board or commissioner, reporting to the Secretary of Labor.

nounced

illionaire. The CHAIRMAN. Do you think the other Governments would have no objection to reciated. such commissioner being present at the ports of embarkation to reject their citizens? Mr. TWYEFFORT. Of course, I am not able to answer that, because I could not give tending to an answer to it, not having given that the necessary study. But I know that if our see what legislators pass such a law they will delve into it before passing it. I consider it this eat many way, that if at the present time there is an excess of labor in those countries those who with its wish to leave with the consent of the powers that be there, then we, as a nation, ought to

here and h what the

cooperate.

Mr. RAKER. Would you explain to the committee just what you mean by maki the law flexible or more flexible?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I think that the Secretary of Labor could, for instance, be the o to judge, after hearing, upon the necessity of keeping up the quota of skilled labore in this country as required by a certain industry, and he could then make the su gestion that more men in that line of business, skilled artisans, should be allowed come in, notwithstanding the fact that the law says that the quota has been reache Mr. RAKER. Would you give the committee the benefit of your experience a judgment, when you present to the committee the idea that the examination ought be made abroad instead of in the United States, when up to date, under the quota l there has been practically no returning of people that were admissible except the where there was a couple of quotas exhausted? Why do you ask to have somebo abroad, if that statement of mine is a fact?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I would like to broaden out that subject a little. I would perhaps, individual in making this statement, but I am a firm believer, Mr. Chairm and members of the committee, I am a firm believer that Christopher Columbus divinely inspired when he started to discover America, and I believe that this con nent was to be the haven of such men as started to populate this country and mak what it is to-day. I do not think that the time has come to shut the doors or the g of this great continent to men who would in time become desirable citizens. T is broad, I admit.

The CHAIRMAN. Let us just pursue that. If that is the case, then should not t committee, instead of spending these days in hearing those who need labor or th they need it devote this time to the discussion of bills which provide for the admiss of refugees from all of Asia Minor, Russia, and other countries, that are clamora to come to the country? The number of refugees estimated in Asia Minor alone in excess of 2,000,000.

Mr. TWYEFFORT. Answering that, Mr. Chairman, I would simply say that I sorry I made that statement I made, although I stick to my belief. We should sider America first; we can not open its doors indiscriminately to all those who real what America is. But I am simply here as a member of this organization and of Merchants' Association of the City of New York and of the United States Chamber Commerce to plead for betterments in the line of helping this movement which going on for betterment in large business.

The CHAIRMAN. You are here with the tailors' organization?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. You are a member of the Merchants' Association of New York? Mr. TWYEFFORT. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You are a member of the Chamber of Commerce of the Unit States?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And are all these organizations combined in the effort to rem certain immigration restrictions?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I can not speak for them, except as an individual: but the ti will come when they will have to, in pursuance of the necessities of their differet, business, come to you and ask what I am asking.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you here in your capacity as a member of the tailors' organiz tion?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you a manufacturing tailor?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I beg your pardon.

The CHAIRMAN. What kind of an establishment have you?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I simply have a merchant's tailor establishment.

The CHAIRMAN. You take orders from Minnesota for clothes?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. From all over.

The CHAIRMAN. Were the orders that you spoke of as from Minneapolis, that could not deliver, individual orders or gross orders?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. Individual.

The CHAIRMAN. Some individual that would send from St. Paul or Minneapolis New York for a suit of clothes?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. That is the idea.

The CHAIRMAN. And he writes that he can not get coal and can not get a suit clothes shipped to him?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. That is one of his hardships.

The CHAIRMAN. That is sent to you because there is a shortage of tailors in St. Pa and Minneapolis?

Mr. TwYEFFORT. I did not analyze his letter or did not ask him, but I do plead ilty, because I have taken the order and did not render it within a reasonable

ne.

That was due to a shortage of labor.

The CHAIRMAN. How many tailors are employed in your shop?

Mr. TwYEFFORT. Fifty.

The CHAIRMAN. What is their nationality?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. All nationalities; mostly now American citizens.

The CHAIRMAN. Where do most of them come from to the United States?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. Some from France, some came from England, some from Norway, me from the northern parts of Europe, some from Italy, and some from Poland; all rer. We have 10 or 12 different nationalities.

The CHAIRMAN. Everywhere except the United States.

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I have not yet found an American tailor.

The CHAIRMAN. Do these tailors working for you have families?

Mr. TwYEFFORT. Most all have families.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they train their sons in the tailoring business?
Mr. TWYEFFORT. Not one, to my knowledge.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the average rate of pay?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. The average pay is from $32 up to $150 a week.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think that rate of pay will drop if additional tailors are Imitted from other countries?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I do not see how that will as long as the cost of living will uphold it The CHAIRMAN. You do not think we will get back to normalcy all along the line Fien?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I am in hopes we will.

The CHAIRMAN. Speaking of getting back to normalcy, do you want to start first ith putting the tailor back in the shell he was in before the war?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. Our tailors were never in the shell; they are artists.

The CHAIRMAN. They are artists, all of them? Do you have apprentices in your hops?

Mr. TwYEFFORT. We would like to have them, but can not find them and there is pposition in the trade unions against them. There is in every trade union.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any apprentices at all in the shop?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. We have tried to have an apprentice school and spent considerble money endeavoring to promote and create it, but we have not been successful. The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any way at all of interesting a tailor in Sweden in Coming to New York and finding a job as tailor?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. If it were not against the law, I think we could help ourselves very materially.

The CHAIRMAN. You know of no way to get around that law?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. No, sir. As citizens we obey the law.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you given any study to whether machine tailoring is gradually crowding out the custom business?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I would say on that—pardon me for saying that—it is a great deal the same as purchasing an original painting or a chromo. That is the only way I can explain it. That explains the order from Minnesota. The people from Minnesota who have learned what the artistic is in tailoring are willing to pay the price. If God made man in his own image, why have we not the satisfaction of clothing him in accordance with his position.

The CHAIRMAN. We can not go into all the details, but I am asking you, as a practical man, if bulk manufacture of clothing is not crowding the customs tailor out just as other hand industries have gone out in the lifetime of all of us?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. No more than in any line of business where the artistic will always hold its own.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you state to the committee what efforts you have made to obtain additional help?

Mr. TWYEFFORT. I would say that two years ago when we saw this thing approaching I suggested that in a legal way we inquire into conditions abroad, with the desire of overcoming the conditions, which we saw approaching, but the members of our organization did not follow it up. My idea was simply to inquire abroad what good men could be brought over here to advantage of the country, to themselves, and for our particular business, but the thing was not followed up because it looked as if we might come in conflict with the laws of the country, which might classify our doing so as coming under the contract labor law. Now, that would be permissible, if it would be legal for members of our trade to find suitable men abroad who at the same time would become suitable citizens; we could help ourselves, but under that law we can not do it.

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