sentation to the Association of Official Seed Certifying Agencies, and every opportunity in which they would like to participate through their official representation I think is open, sir, really.

Mr. ABERNETHY. Well, these standards and procedures would, of course, be published in the Federal Register, would they not, and the producers and the public would have an opportunity to make some appearance before they became final?

Mr. MCLAUGHLIN. This is my understanding.
However, Mr. Rollin would elaborate.

Mr. ABERNETHY. I wonder if the Department witness would respond to that?

Mr. ROLLIN. I don't believe we planned to publish the standards in the Federal Register, but to propose a regulation referring to this publication and making this publication available to anyone who desires it.

Mr. ABERNETHY. To what extent would the information be disseminated among producers?

Mr. ROLLIN. To the extent that they desire to request a copy after the proposed regulation referred to this publication.

Mr. ABERNETHY. How would they know you had adopted any standards?

Mr. ROLLIN. We would have a public hearing, which we are required to have under the Federal Seed Act, before adopting this set of standards.

Mr. ABERNETHY. How would notice of such be given to the average producer of seed?

Mr. ROLLIN. It will be in the Federal Register. There would be press releases.

Mr. ABERNETHY. If I may interrupt you, not many people read the Federal Register.

Mr. ROLLIN. I realize that, but we put out press releases to all of the seed trade magazines, and if necessary to all the farm periodicals and whatever we think is necessary to reach the public we think should be informed.

Mr. ABERNETHY. I ask these questions only because this matter comes to my mind here this morning and it has caught me a little by surprise. I also note a suggestion made by the Farm Bureau. I don't always agree with them, but I think their interest is manifest to the farm people of the country.

Thank you very much.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. Mr. McLaughlin?

Mr. MCLAUGHLIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. Let me ask you this:

Speaking about North Carolina, assuming that the minimum standards set out by AOSCA were adopted, would this cost--the cost to the farm user would cost more to buy the certified seed?

Mr. MCLAUGHLIN. Mr. Chairman, actually the procedures for certifying seed, the cost involved, and the volume of certified seed produced, as I see it would not be affected in North Carolina one bit.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. Well, it would entail the necessity, as I see it, of more cost to the producer of the seed if he would be limited to three generations, as one of these statements say, or it would entail more

work or more careful analysis of whatever it is he does to qualify under more strict certification standards; wouldn't that be correct?

Mr. MCLAUGHLIN. No, sir, because North Carolina now complies with the standards to which you are referring, the Association of Official Seed Certifying Agency minimum standards.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. He has to go to a different or more stringent process to obtain certification?

Mr. MCLAUGHLIN. No, sir, I don't visualize that he would have to go through any different process at all. As has been previously indicated, the vast majority of the State certifying agencies now do in fact have standards comparable to those of the association which we are referring to.

The procedures for certifying the seed itself, the physical procedures would not be changed in which this is the service that the grower has to pay for, the procedures to go through, the field inspection, your filing of application.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. I understand this, but my question was-I think you answered it-which is really very simple is that all this legislation is attempting to do is that every State have the same minimum requirements?

Mr. MCLAUGHLIN. For genetic purity, yes, sir.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. And your testimony is that most of them have it now; is that it?

Mr. MCLAUGHLIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. We have a statement which will be submitted later from the Farm Bureau, which expresses some concern that inadequate consideration would be given or not adequate consideration would be given to farmer users of certified seed.

This is what I am trying to clear up, will it cost the farmer any more for his seed? We assume, of course, that he would be aided very much by better seed and more uniform certification procedures, but the question which I would like to ask you, and quoting to you from the Farm Bureau letter which will be submitted for the record:

The American Farm Bureau Federation Board is concerned that the proposed “standards and procedures" might be recommended by state seed certifying agencies and approved by the Secretary without adequate consideration of the views of the farmer-users of certified seed.

Would you think that under the operations which you now have that the farmer-user is adequately protected as you have it in your statement now?

Mr. MCLAUGHLIN. Yes, sir, and may I explore just one point to point

this out.

At the national level our North Carolina Crop Improvement Association has commodity committees, a cotton committee, a small grain committee.

These committees are composed of four basic groups of people, the seedsman, who is merchandising it to the grower, the expert, the scientist, and the user, and in our State this is generally the executive secretary of that particular association, whether it be cotton or sweet potatoes and so forth. So that we feel that through these commodity committees and it is at this level that any change is fully evaluated before it is recommended to our board--we feel at this level that the

producer as well as the merchandiser, as well as the user is represented in our organization.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. Mr. Kleppe, do you have any questions?

Mr. KLEPPE. No, I don't think so, Mr. Chairman.

Sorry I was late. I was on the other side. But thank you, any way. Mr. DE LA GARZA. Thank you very much, Mr. McLaughlin.

We will now hear from Mr. W. W. Guerry, Mississippi Seed Improvement Association.

Mr. ABERNETHY. He is a very valuable constituent of mine, and I want to be sure I recognize his presence and qualifications to vote in Mississippi.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. We are always glad to have valuable constituents. We are very happy to have you here, Mr. Guerry, and we will be happy to hear from you now.

STATEMENT OF WALKER W. GUERRY, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, MISSISSIPPI SEED IMPROVEMENT ASSOCIATION

Mr. GUERRY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.

My name is Walker Guerry. I am executive secretary of the Mississippi Seed Improvement Association and I am Mississippi's representative on the board of directors of the Association of Official Seed Certifying Agencies.

I appreciate the opportunity of appearing before your committee representing Mississippi Seed Improvement Association and the Association of Official Seed Certifying Agencies in support of H.R. 10236 and supporting bills.

Seed certification and certified seed are no longer viewed only from a local or national level but also from an international point of view. Not only will this amendment establish greater uniformity in certified seed in the United States, but it will also certify the meaning of the term "certified seed" in international trade.

This amendment to the Federal Seed Act will recognize a minimum certification standard; however, it will not restrict a State from surpassing those standards.

The amendment would establish minimum criteria on certified seed moving in interstate commerce. While this is true the amendment does not restrict the now democratic process whereby interested groups or individuals may have a voice in establishing the standards to be recognized under the Federal Seed Act.

I feel that this amendment is needed and trust that your committee will lend its support.

Thank you for the opportunity of appearing before your committee. Mr. DE LA GARZA. Thank you very much, Mr. Guerry.

Mr. ABERNETHY. Mr. Chairman, I would like to Mr. Guerry. I want to personally welcome you here. I am sorry I haven't had an opportunity to speak with you before the hour, but I will do so after the hearing.

You state that, "While this is true the amendment does not restrict the now democratic process whereby interested groups or individuals may have a voice in establishing the standards to be recognized under the Federal Seed Act."

What voice would they have?

Mr. GUERRY. You mean by that

Mr. ABERNETHY. Are they members of your association?

Mr. GUERRY. They could very easily be members of our association, as has been pointed out. On the level of the AOSCA we have commodity meetings such as cotton, rice, and so forth.

Mr. ABERNETHY. Yes.

Mr. GUERRY. On this committee anyone that is a member, or if he is not a member he may participate in the discussion and formulation of the regulations that will be recommended by these committees, these commodity committees, such as cotton.

If anyone is interested in what the cotton committee is doing on the AOSCA level he may participate in these committee meetings. Mr. ABERNETHY. Now, you know we have some pretty good seed producers around Mississippi.

Mr. GUERRY. Yes.

Mr. ABERNETHY. What is their general feeling about this legislation?

Mr. GUERRY. They support it.

Mr. ABERNETHY. They have full knowledge?

Mr. GUERRY. They have full knowledge.

Mr. ABERNETHY. Does Mr. Howard McShann produce seed himself? Mr. GUERRY. Yes, he does.

Mr. ABERNETHY. I know he is interested in this bill because he was the first person to call me about it.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. Mr. Kleppe?

Mr. KLEPPE. No questions.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. Thank you very much. I appreciate you coming to appear before us today.

Is there any other witness who would like to testify in behalf of this legislation?

If not, I have some statements to submit for the record.

Mr. Albert Russell, executive vice president, National Cotton Council of America, and the American Farm Bureau Federation, Marvin L. McLain, legislative director-and Mr. Rollin, we are charging the Secretary through you that "adequate consideration of the views of the farmer-users of certified seed be protected to their utmost in your deliberation if this legislation is enacted."

You are nodding, not with much agreement.

Mr. ROLLIN. Perhaps I should say something on the use of the term farmer-user. I am not too clear on what the Farm Bureau is talking about.

Congressman Abernethy was talking about the seed producers and thinking of the people who produce certified seed, I presume, and what their attitude is toward this. But when the Farm Bureau talks about farmer-users they are talking about the buyer of this certified seed. I can't quite see how the buyer would have any voice in this determination of the standards.

Now, he has the choice of buying certified seed or not buying it. He can buy uncertified seed. I don't see how he can have a voice in establishing these standards except insofar as we are required to have a public hearing and to hear the views of any citizen who is able to express views on the subject. This is why I am a little puzzled with the charge.

If you can clarify that for me I will be glad to carry the charge back to the Department.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. I will be very happy to, and you have just stuck a chord here.

Mr. Abernethy has been speaking of the producers of certified seed. and I take this Farm Bureau statement-and my interest would be in the ultimate consumer, and I am somewhat unhappy with your statement that what interest should the consumer-should the farmer have on this. This is what this business is all about, not what the association of agencies or the fellow who grows the seeds.

My main concern here is for my farmer that is going to buy some seed, and I hope at an adequate and just price and that he gets what he pays for when he puts it out in the field.

I think you missed the boat when you say what concern should he have? I know that he wouldn't be technically capable of going through the process of certification and so on, but the attitude of the Department is that your interest is with the producer or with the associations. You have lost me, and we might continue this hearing in another sense and see that we set things straight, that this legislation should be, if the intention is not, we want to be sure that it would be for the benefit of the consumer, of the fellow out on the farm that buys the seed, and by golly, if he doesn't have a say so in it then we have missed it altogether. That is what I would like for you to convey to the Secretary.

Mr. ROLLIN. I think there is no doubt about what you say.

The Federal Seed Act is basically legislation to protect the consumer. The whole concept is truth-in-labeling law. But what I was talking about is the determination of the standards themselves. This is done by the scientist, by the producers, and by the people who are growing the seed. They are the ones that have to decide what standards they can meet, what is practical and what can be met.

My statement means-or was meant to convey that the consumer, for instance in Missouri, is not in a position to determine what the standards in the State of California should be for the production of seed in the State of California. This is what I was trying to convey.

Mr. DE LA GARZA. I agree with you in this respect and I qualify that as far as the technical process. I am not going to discuss with my doctor what kind of an incision he is going to make if he is going to operate on me. But I think I have a darn sight of interest in discussing with my doctor what he is going to do to me. I might be interested in knowing what kind of incision even if I might not understand. But I want his assurance that he is going to do it the right way.

I think this is what these people mean, that the farmer-user be notified, that the farmer-user be considered in your deliberations, not in the technical process as to procedures, and so on, but that the ultimate decision be that you are going to do what is best for the farmeruser. And keep in the back of your mind that your certification and procedures shall be for the benefit not of the grower or of the association, but of the ultimate consumer, which would be the farmer.

Mr. ROLLIN. I think I can assure the chairman and the committee members that this is always the primary view that we have in mind in enforcement of the Federal Seed Act, and we never lose sight of it. If that is what is intended I am sure I can carry this charge back to the Department of Agriculture.