"The deputation responded to his Lordship's feelings, by expressing the pleasure they also had derived from the interview, and were leaving the room, when Lord Lyndhurst added, 'I shall be most happy to receive any further communication from you on this or any subject of general interest, on which you may at all times command my services and best attention.'

"Lord Lyndhurst evidently possesses mental powers of the first order, and if the visit of the deputation should have the effect of inducing him to turn his attention to this subject, and the social condition of the working classes generally under the present operation of machinery, this interview will have laid the foundation of an amount of good which cannot now be fully estimated."

Interview with Lord Stanley, Secretary of State for the Colonial Department.

"The Deputation then proceeded to the Colonial Office, where, after waiting a short time, they were introduced to Lord Stanley, who apologized for the slight delay, which, he stated, had arisen from the desire of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to meet the deputation at the same time. He had sent to his office, stating that the deputation had arrived, and had received for answer, that business of a pressing importance prevented Mr. Goulburn from having the pleasure of meeting them.

In this conference Lord Stanley took a similar position to Sir James Graham on the subject of foreign trade, competition, and machinery, cautioning the deputation, however, as his right hon. colleague had done, that in putting forward these arguments he was not to be understood as expressing his own opinions on the subject, but simply showing the deputation the arguments by which their propositions would probably be met, and with a view to elicit from them to what extent they had considered the question in that light.

"The Deputation, in reply, took a similar course of argument to that adopted in the interview with the Home Secretary, and succeeded in obtaining Lord Stanley's assent, not only to the propositions laid down, but also to the fact that much of the evil had arisen from the erroneous application of machinery under the guidance of ignorant selfishness. He confessed that the view of the question taken by the deputation, whether we extended or restricted the operation of the present manufacturing system, appeared to him a gloomy one, but that he did not see how the conclusion could be avoided that, even with a large increase of foreign trade, there might and would, under the pressure of competition, be an increase of self-acting machinery, a decrease of manual labour, leading to low wages, and consequently a low state of existence among the few that might be employed, and this running parallel with the utter destitution and pauperism of the larger number whose labour was displaced by these new machines.

"The Deputation, in illustration of their remarks as to the effect of the present application of machinery upon the labourer, presented his Lordship with a piece of cloth produced by the new felting process-a process by which, without spinning or weaving, hundreds of yards of cloth can be made per day at a price little exceeding the cost of the oil now used in making the Yorkshire cloths. They stated that this fabric was now extensively used for inferior purposes, and that the defects which prevented its application to superior uses were in the process of rapid removal, and that when this was effected its general introduction might be looked for, to the displacing of the great majority of the heads of families in the West-Riding and other clothing districts. A member of the deputation also assured his Lordship, from his own knowledge, that in another department of manufacture a new machine was preparing to perform a process which now employed a considerable number of hands, and that with this new machine very few operatives would be needed; and the deputation asked. What was to become of the individuals who would be displaced by the general introduction of these and other manual-labour-saving machines?"

"Lord Stanley again repeated, that it was a perplexing question, at the root of the social derangements and difficulties, which have so much increased of late years. But how to deal with it he was by no means clear.

The Deputation urged upon his Lordship the imperative necessity of retracing our steps. abandoning the false policy and false political economy which had led us astray from the path of sound national prosperity. The evil confessedly arose from the superabundance of the means for producing wealth. Why should we be so insane as to make these the instruments for destroying our own happiness, and at the same time for ruining that of our neighbours?

The extent to which a repeal of the Corn Laws would operate in relieving the labour-market from its present depression, was also fully discussed with his Lordship, and the inutility of that measure was exposed by the deputation; while, at the same time, they asserted its abstract justice and propriety; but, as a practical measure for securing permanent and remunerative employment, its pretensions had been thoroughly analized, and it had been found wanting.

"The Deputation concluded by laying before Lord Stanley a similar course of policy to that recommended to his colleagues. whom they had had the honour of meeting; namely, the passing of a simple, efficient, and binding Ten Hours' Bill, the alteration of the New Poor Law: and, lastly, the appointment of a committee of inquiry, which should have for its special object the working of machinery since 1815.

"Lord Stanley lemurred to the latter proposal. He said that committees and commissioners Lad become a byword, and he feared that if the present Government were to pursue that course,

the public would believe that it was desirous of shelving troublesome questions with which it felt itself unable to grapple. He also graphically described the course of a committee, and the manner in which one of those "awful blue books" wound up its one-sided labours. Upon the whole, his Lordship did not seem to entertain a very favourable opinion of this last suggestion.

The Deputation replied, that there was a wide distinction between the use and abuse of anything. A razor was au excellent iustrument when put to its proper use,-that of shaving,-but by no means so when applied to cut a throat. In like manner the bad purposes to which committees and commissionerships had hitherto been put formed no argument against their proper application. "It was urged upon his Lordship's attention that it would be a very different proceeding from that of shalving' a troublesome question for the Government, when it met Parliament, honestly to say, We have no facts to enable us to deal with one of the most perplexing and important of the questions which press upon our attention; and, therefore, propose a committee for a full and complete inquiry, for the purpose of aiding us in maturing measures of relief. At the same time the deputation were quite aware that such a committee would fail in accomplishing the intended object unless it was appointed at the request of the Government, and in the spirit and for the purpose named.

"His Lordship was reminded that no such inquiry had ever been instituted; that there had grown up amongst us a mighty power, which had done much to produce the state of things now deplored; and that no inquiry into its operations and effects, with a view to its due regulation for national wellbeing, had ever yet been had. The time was come when this question must be grappled with, or it would overthrow the strongest Government that could be formed. The deputation suggested this committee as one of the best means of getting at the facts of the case. They did not wish for a mockery of an inquiry. They did not wish for a committee to run the usual course of committees and commissioners. They did not want a committee to get up a case, but they wanted a full, a complete, and honest inquiry, by competent men of all parties, into the working of the present system, with a view of applying a plain, simple, and efficient remedy. The deputation requested his Lordship to bear in mind that, in suggesting this course, which they were inclined to believe would be found in the end highly beneficial to all parties, they were not urging it as the primary object of their mission-that was a Ten Hours' Bill. If the Government would give that, it would be an earnest to the operatives in the manufacturing districts, that the Ministers really sympathized with them, and were desirous of alleviating the calamities which they endured. It was no problematical question. For 25 years it had been discussed and agitated in public meetings and in Parliament, and had formed the subject of voluminous inquiries. The evidence of men of the highest standing in the medical profession had shown, that the continuance of the old system was incompatible with the dictates of common humanity and justice; and the philanthropist and the statesman had equally shown that its perpetuation was adverse alike to individual and national wellbeing. For these reasons the deputation earnestly pressed upon his Lordship the necessity of adopting the Ten Hours' Bill, as at least a preliminary measure.

"Lord Stanley expressed his pleasure at the interview, but said he saw great difficulties in the way of a settlement of the perplexing questions which had been brought under his notice. He had been gratified with the very intelligent and high-toned manner in which these questions had been discussed by the deputation; and they might rest assured that, whatever determination was come to on the subject, it would be with all respect for the judgement of those who showed that they had given it a full and deliberate consideration in all its various phases.

The Deputation then took leave of Lord Stanley with feelings of regret, somewhat similar to those excited by Sir James Graham. Like the Home Secretary, his Lordship's attention had been more prominently fixed upon the manner in which the measures proposed might effect capital than upon the consideration of the higher questions of justice, humanity, morality, and the general defusion of happiness among the population. At the same time, however, the deputation have to record the high gratification which Lord Stanley's frank and cordial demeanour afforded them, and also the pleasure they received from the ready and able manner in which lie entered into discussion with them on the various important questions alluded to, during a conversation of upwards of an hour. His Lordship appeared to speak as if his mind was depressed with the difficulties which the Government would have to encounter, whatever course of policy it eventually adopted.

"To Mr. Beckett the thanks of the deputation are eminently due, for the deep and heartfelt interest he took in the success of their mission, and the assistance he afforded them. Opposed as they were to that gentleman in political opinions, and avowing freely this difference, it gratified them exceedingly to find him so superior to class, party, and conventional influence, and to hear from his lips the avowal of principles in reference to the use of property, and the rights of the poor, which, if more generally felt and acted upon, would speedily terminate the acrimony and division now so prevalent between the wealthy and the poorer classes, and insure to the latter comparative comfort; to the former, the goodwill and esteem of their poorer brethren. For such sentiments and principles, sincerely held, the deputation entertain the highest respect, whatever may be the party-name the individnal may assume.

In conclusion, the necessarily brief and imperfect report here presented from recollection will afford a tolerably fair idea of the reception which has been accorded to your deputation, and of the degree of success which has attended their mission. They leave the facts they have narrated to speak for themselves, and, without further comment, conclude by subscribing themselves your fellow-workers in the cause of justice, truth, and humanity.

"GEORGE A. FLEMING.

"JOSHUA HOBSON.

"JOHN LEACH.

"MARK CRABTREE.

"TITUS S. BROOKE."

Printed by Vincent Torras & Co., 7, Palace Row, New Road, Londen.

THE

FLEET PAPERS.

LONDON: PUBLISHED BY

JOHN PAVEY, 47, HOLYWELL STREET, STRAND,

AND

BENJAMIN STEILL, 20, PATERNOSTER ROW.

NOTICES TO CORRESPONDENTS.

WILLIAM DODD, the Factory Cripple, returns thanks to Mr. Woodward, Optician, Clare Market, for 2s. Several highly esteemed friends wish Mr. Oastler to write a Fleeter on the subject of Emigration. The scheme of draining the nation of its wealth and strength, under the false plea, that There are too many of us." cannot, in Mr. Oastler's opinion, be too strongly condemned. Were that opinion founded in justice, Marcus's scheme would be benevolent, compared with that of emigration! Can any one favour Mr. Oastler with an account of the sufferings of emigrants, on the passage, and afterwards?

A valued correspondent suggests, "An Act was passed, 1st and 2nd of William IV., providing, that any parish in, or convenient to which, Crown land was situated, might obtain fifty acres, to divide amongst the poor, by applying to the Lords of the Treasury." And he adds, "Would it not be well to note this in the Fleeters. I think it would have a good effect."

I commend the two following letters to the serious attention of the Leaguers.—R.O SIR ROBERT PEEL'S GOVERNMENT, AND THE DISTRESS OF THE MANUFACTURING AND TRADING INTERESTS OF GREAT BRITAIN.

"To Mr. Richard Oastler, Fleet Prison,

"DEAR SIR,On the 8th of June last, I addressed a letter to you, which contained various remarks on the strange anomaly which exists in the commercial policy of England, and the inevitable ruin that must ensue to the country, if the present system of the political economy quacks and the free traders should not be totally reversed. On the 6th of November. you inserted my letter on the Cover of the Fleet Papers and as I then stated my opinion pretty fully, as to the cause of the present appalling situation of the manufacturers, merchants, traders, shopkeepers, and labouring classes, in almost every branch of trade, I should not have addressed you again, had not a variety of circumstances arisen since last June, to call for further observation. Since Sir Robert Peel and Her Majesty's present Ministers have held office, they have been beset by unprincipled opposition, and called on to remedy evils all at once, which have grown up for many years, under the misrule of their predecessors in office, whose entire policy of government was founded on the novel theories of the political economists; and their natural consequences, a speculative attempt to establish a free trade system, which is not founded upon treaties to ensure a reciprocity of benefit from other nations, which new system has allowed foreigners to obtain from us all our improvements in machinery, as well as the produce thereof, and has thus enabled them not only to compete with us in manufacture, but has also rendered most of the continental states quite independent of any supply of manufactured goods from England; by this one-sided process of legislation our trade in manufactured goods with the Continent, is very materially reduced, and we are thrown, in a great degree, upon our own colonies for customers, which cannot consume the overwhelming productions of our immense machinery. The all-absorbing topic of annoyance to the present Government, has been the subject of the Corn Laws which is only used as a lever to raise the excited passions of the multitude, to obtain political ascendency for a party of men who have proved themselves incapable, except for mischief, and the continuance of the un-English system of political economy; by which the great millocrats, and other avaricious capitalists, are enabled to acquire immense wealth, by the depression of the middle class of traders, and the starvation and ruin of the labouring population and their families.

"I have, for above twenty years, narrowly watched the progress and effects produced by the abuse of machinery, and the excessive, cruel, and unnatural employment of infant labour in the factories, and have never doubted that the time would arrive when over-production, and the fraudulent

system of trade engendered by it, would disorganize and paralize the trade of Great Britain, as well as those states on the Continent, who attempted to establish the same system in their dominions; my constant forebodings, are now more than realized, for surely the trade of a great and wealthy nation, was never so nearly paralized as is our own at this moment."

"I would now call your serious attention, and that of your readers, to the exposition which has occurred within the past few weeks on the trial, Sheppard) v. Shool bred and Cook, of Tottenham Court Road, and the examination of a bankrupt named Hitchcock, of Regent Street, on his dealings with a large wholesale house in the City, stated to be Cook and Gladstone, of St. Paul's Church Yard. Now, Sir, the transactions developed in these two cases, will, I think, at once show the cause of our commercial distress and embarrassment, without conjuring up the Corn Laws or any other fallacy. It must be recollected that, although these two cases, and some others of a similar nature, are dragged before the public occasionally, yet for the past twenty years the same ruinous system has been going on, more or less in all the extensive firms in England, both with the wholesale and retail traders, who keep the same sort of establishments. If this system cannot be repressed, there can be no hope for the honest manufacturers or traders; nor, indeed, can England ever again enjoy commercial prosperity, if such wholesale robbery cannot be punished and repressed. Perhaps the Legislature cannot of itself remedy the evils of which I complain, as the mischief is deep rooted, and is upheld by an unnatural competition between the manufacturers and traders themselves, each striving against the other to manufacture and sell goods cheaper than they could be sold, if they did not violate every principle of rectitude in their dealings with each ther and the public.

"There is great difficulty in proposing a cure for the evils stated: the public cannot be expected to refrain from buying where they can obtain cheap articles, as they cannot know by what fraudulent means the articles are procured, as the cheapest and most deceptive goods are sold at the most splendid warehouses and shops in the United Kingdom, which naturally are thought to be the most respectable. One way that the evil might be checked, appears to me, after long and deliberate consideration, to be, by the combination of respectable bankers, merchants, manufacturers, traders, and shopkeepers themselves, to expose the fraudulent dealers in every form.

"I would humbly beg to suggest a method of carrying out the above proposition. There are various associations of tradesmen in London, for the purpose of detecting, by mutual reports to each other, all persons who are unfit to be trusted, from want of means or principle to pay their debts; those societies are found very useful in preventing and exposing swindling &c., &c. I would propose to form a new society under the influence and patronage of the Lord Mayor, (for the time being) and some of the first rate bankers and merchants, and I would have the society called The Bankers, Merchants. Manufacturers, and Traders Society, for the detection and punishment of frauds in Trade.' The objects of the society should be, the exposure of all the irregular jobbing transactions of various parties. in buying goods considerably under their value, and the detection, of the mode by which large establishments are formed and supported, and when it shall be known that the proprietors cannot possibly have capital themselves, honestly to meet their engagements, then to refuse them credit; also to enable members of the society to communicate intelligence to the committee, on good authority, of all fraudulent transactions, that may individually come to their knowledge, in order that the society may assist in prosecuting the parties concerned. The information thus obtained, if reported under a proper form by the committee, to the members of the society, would act as a great protection, to prevent credit being given to improper persons, who had not the fair means to conduct their trade in a legitimate manner, by this means, one great source of the evils complained of could be remedied. I would suggest that the society should be established under the following regulation, and I humbly offer a few rules for its government.

The Bankers, Merchants, Manufacturers, and Traders' Society, for the detection and punishment of Frauds in Trade.

PRESIDENT,

The Lord Mayor.

FOUR VICE PRESIDENTS.

COMMITTEE,

Composed of 21 Bankers, Merchants, and Shopkeepers.

:

A SECRETARY, COLLECTOR, AND MESSENGER.

1st Rule That the object of this society be to promote a fair and legitimate mode of conducting trade, by affording protection to the honest trader, and exposing the pretensions of the fraudulent, and disreputable. 2nd Rule: That the society shall be supported by donations, and annual subscriptions of 17. Is. Od., the payment of the latter to constitute the party a member of the society; a subscription of 27. 2s. Od., annually to constitute each person in a partnership firm a member.

3rd Rule:-That no mercantile firm who are in the habit of buying job goods, or otherwise dealing in an irregular business-like manner, shall by themselves or partners be eligible to be elected members of the society.

4th Rule: That all new members shall be nominated by an annual subscriber, and elected by a majority of the committee.

:

5th Rule That the rules of the society shall be settled at a public meeting of the members.

6th Rule: That a committee consisting of twenty one members shall be annually appointed by the subscribers to the society, at a public meeting to be held for that purpose, and for making new rules or altering the old ones, and for submitting the accounts of the society, to the subscribers, &c., &c.

7th Rule: That a sub-committee, consisting of seven members of the general committee, be appointed to examine all cases sent to the latter, and to report the same at the next monthly meeting of the board, and all other special matters that may come under their observation.

8th Rule:- That the general committee meet once a month, and the sub-committee once in every fortnight, and that special meetings may be called on the requisition of three

members.

9th Rule:- That a secretary be appointed whose duties shall be fixed, and salary apportioned by the general committee.

10th Rule:- That the general committee shall have power to frame bye-laws, from time to time, for the proper government of the society.

11th Rule:- That special public meetings of the subscribers shall be called on the written requisition of seven members addressed to the secretary of the society. 12th Rule:- That..... be the bankers and treasurers of the society. "If, Sir, you think the foregoing remarks may be made in any way useful, your insertion of this letter in the Fleet Papers will be esteemed a favour. "I am, dear Sir, yours sincerely, "A TRADESMAN."

"London, December 24th, 1841.

"P.S. I am induced to address these observations to you, well knowing how deep an interest you take in the commercial prosperity of the country and those engaged in the manufacturing districts, who are now in a state of great privation and distress."

LETTER VII.

ON COMMERCIAL ECONOMY.

"To J. R. M CULLOCH, Esq.,

"SIR-It requires very little reflection to enable us to perceive that all mankind are, either directly or indirectly, dependent upon trade or exchange for their incomes, or the commodities which they buy for their consumption and gratification. A bountiful Creator, indeed, gives us the inexhaustible fund of rude or unwrought materials, with which the earth is stored, and He sustains constantly the elements of which these are composed, by the active and varying operations of His power; but He has decreed that the modification and appropriation of them shall be with ourselves, that the labour and ingenuity of man shall be the instruments by which the purpose designed is to be accomplished. This forms the great trust which He has reposed in us.

It is the LAW of exchange or trade, which gives value to every commodity we possess, so that he who buys, and he who sells, are dependent upon the same law. It is by this law that the revenue of the sovereign is determined. It is by this law that the whole property of the wealthiest peer derives its existence. It is by this law that the merchant and the manufacturer acquire all the profits of their great adventures, and thus increase their means or capital. It is by this law that all the numerous shopkeepers and skilful artisans of a nation, derive the benefits which accrue to them from their diversified occupations. It is by this law that he who has nothing more to offer than his labour, derives his remuneration for that, and this we call wages. And it is the being excluded from all the benefits of this law, that makes men wretched outcasts from social life. How important then is the investigation and the right understanding of this law. Unhappily, the human mind has not yet been able to obtain universal assent to the principle on which the law above referred to, is founded, and hence have arisen conflicting opinions, and, as a necessary consequence, conflicting practice. The difference of opinion which thus prevails, may be ranged under two heads, or systems, the one being restrictive, enjoining a regulation of commercial actions; the other being free, permitting the desires and actions of men to have unrestrained or full scope.

"On undertaking to investigate this great and extensive subject, we must remember, that it has been found necessary, in every community of people, and in no community has it been carried to a greater extent than in our own, for members to undertake separate employments, in order to facilitate the progress of civilization and improvement. Hence, it will be evident, that the object of research is that course of practical commercial action which will conduce to the prosperity of these distinct sources of employment, first of one, then of another, then of a third, and so onwards, until all the separate interests are included, for this will embrace the welfare of the whole community. Thus, the task which we have to accomplish, is that of finding out and establishing a GENERAL principle. I propose now to show you that the writer, whose judgments you and the whole school of modern political economists acknowledge to be the highest authority in the science, has entered upon a particular consideration of this vital point, and that he has been under the necessity of arguing, that the great general beneficial principle to which I have just adverted, appertains to the restrictive system of commerce in contradistinction to the free. The passage to which I allude occurs in the 4th Book, 2nd chapter of Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations,' and is as follows:

"By restraining, either by high duties or by absolute prohibitions, the importation of such goods from foreign countries as can be produced at home, the monopoly of the home market is more or less secured to the domestic industry employed in producing them. Thus the prohibition