The use of plastic bullets is wrong, and I am of the opinion that this hearing should follow the example of the European Parliament and most European countries and demand that plastic bullets be banned. The campaign for the banning of plastic bullets is an apolitical organization. We stand for the right to life, and our campaign is geared toward ensuring that there are no more deaths or fatalities because of the use of this plastic bullet.

I realize that when I speak here today I do so in the capacity of a person who has witnessed first-hand the impact which a bullet can have on peoples' lives. Recently, a report has been published highlighting the fact that the RUC, British army, were using plastic bullets which were more lethal than what the British Government was prepared to admit.

Last summer more than 6,000 plastic bullets were fired in 1 week, the normal average for a year is 1,000. We need your help to ensure that these plastic bullets are not used this coming summer during the marching season. One and one-half million pounds, equal to three million dollars, has been paid in compensation to families and individuals who have been maimed or killed by the plastic bullets. Is this a situation that any democratic party or government can allow to continue?

I am of the opinion that if you believe in democracy, then you believe in the right to life. If you believe in the right to life, then you will demand that plastic bullets are banned not only in Ireland, but throughout the world.

Again, I would like to thank you all here for hearing this testimony. As has been the case in the north of Ireland, we have never been given justice. No prosecutions have ever taken place. No accountability. The police are a law unto themselves. They kill, maim children, men, women with this indiscriminate use of plastic bullets.

Again, I would just like to take this opportunity to thank you. [The prepared statement of Mrs. Downes appears in the appendix.]

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mrs. Downes.

Mr. King.

Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman, could Mrs. Groves' daughter identify herself? Thank you.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. King.

Again, Mrs. Downes, thank you for your testimony, and we will do what we can, and I do agree with you.

Mr. Wallace.

STATEMENT OF ED WALLACE, NATIONAL PRESIDENT,

ANCIENT ORDER OF HIBERNIANS

Mr. WALLACE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I welcome all the Members of Congress. I welcome my Congressman, John McHugh, and bring greetings from northern New York, commonly known as God's country.

For the record, the Ancient Order of Hibernians traces its roots back to the 1500s in Ireland when Irish people found it necessary to ban together to defend their faith and their fatherland. With the great wave of immigration in the early 1800s, it was found necessary to establish the Ancient Order of Hibernians in the United

States, which was done in 1836. Again, to help the immigrants defend themselves against discrimination, their faith and their ancestry. We continue today on a daily basis to support human rights for our people here and in Ireland.

So, thank you, Chairman Smith, not only for the opportunity to share the views of our membership with you, but your leadership and that of the members of your committee in taking up this critical task.

In our view, America has a unique contribution to make to the resolution of the conflict and to the protection of human and civil rights for all in Ireland. The political landscape in England and Ireland has changed dramatically in recent weeks, and the United States is presented with a window of opportunity to express its concern and demonstrate its resolve in promoting the justice upon which peace can endure.

First, I must emphasize that Hibernians seek the use of nonviolent means to restore the unity to Ireland lost when Britain chose to unilaterally and undemocratically partition Ireland with a lot in 1919, for which not one Irish vote was cast.

The violence used by the British and their Loyalist allies fails to receive the attention acts of Nationalist paramilitaries are given. It would no doubt surprise you that nearly 900 innocent civilians, amongst one-third of the total casualties, have lost their lives to those who claim to be for law and order, democracy, and who have foresworn violence. The index of deaths, 1969 to 1994, by Malcolm Sutton, portrays the conflict quite a bit different from the one often seen in the U.S. media.

The AOH abhors the use of violence. The AOH condemns the use of violence on both sides. Violence is a dead end, and only unconditioned dialog in the cause that brings us here today, the protection of human rights, will bring peace to Ireland.

First, a core problem which was created by the British to sustain the statelet is anti-Catholic discrimination. Most particularly, in employment. In the McBride Fair Employment Principles, named after the famed Irish nobel peace prize honoree, Dr. Sean MacBride, Americans have a way to ensure that their economic clout, whether by investment or purchase power, promotes fair employment in the north. The principles were supported in the 1996 platforms of both the Democratic and Republican parties.

Republicans supported private investment in the North, fully consistent with the MacBride Principles for Fair Employment in order to address the systematic discriminatory practices that still exist against Catholics in the work place. I applaud your followup, Mr. Chairman, to that commitment by inclusion of the Principles in the bill recently reported from Chairman Gilman's International Relations Committee, and which links the Principles to recipients of money from the International Fund for Ireland.

Second, I draw your attention to a resolution adopted by larger Irish-American organizations this past March 15, 1997. The use of plastic bullets in the North, although introduced as an alternative to regular bullets, has had deadly consequences. The RUC and British army have killed 17 people, 16 Catholics, and permanently

McCafferty, a 16-year-old from Derry who lost his eye to a plastic bullet at Union Hall Place last year.

In this issue we find ourselves in rare agreement with the New York Times, which has called upon Prime Minister Blair to ban their use as a confidence-building measure. We appeal for this committee to join the European Parliament, the Irish Bishops Conference, the U.S. Conference of Bishops, and Physicians for Social Responsibility in opposing the use of these devices, which are banned from use throughout the rest of the United Kingdom.

Third, the true work of peace is to work for measures that will promote justice. Such measures come in many shapes and sizes. The corruption of law which wrongfully imprisoned the Birmingham Six and the Gilford Four, to achieve political ends is ongoing with cases like that of the Casement Three, and that of Danny McNamee, and the punitive detention of Roisin McAliskey. Your expression of concern might serve to expose these injustices to the light of truth.

During the period 1989-1992, nine Sinn Fein-elected officials and campaign workers were slain. Since 1992, five more campaign workers have been murdered and dozens more are regularly detained without charge during campaigns. No other party in a modern democracy has experienced such persecution, which usually begins with the RUC telling a person that his or her file has suddenly "gone missing." The collusion of security forces in this campaign to derive Nationalists of their right to participate in the political process is apparent to all not too blind to see.

As elected representatives, you can campaign here free of such violent intimidation. Your further inquiry into this campaign to silence Sinn Fein could prove critical to restoring a true democracy to the political process in the north.

Finally, I would appeal to you to specifically question on behalf of members of our organization who are imprisoned in the North. Suffice it to say we believe their term of imprisonment should be reduced by the time they spent in confinement in this country while we and most other Irish-American organizations supported their lengthy battle against deportation and extradition. This is a humanitarian plea on behalf of their families, and in the interest of promoting the healing so necessary for the reconciliation of the divided communities. I would ask that this committee or its members individually write to Dr. Mowlam, the Secretary for Northern Ireland, and that the time in America be credited to their original

sentence.

Mr. Chairman, I thank you for your attention to my testimony and ask that it may be included in its entirety in the record of these proceedings.

Mr. SMITH. Without objection, Mr. Wallace, your full statement will be made a part of the record, as will all the others.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Wallace appears in the appendix.]

Mr. SMITH. Before going to Mary Paglione, let me thank the Hibernians again for the work that you are doing. I think that there is a much more energized effort underway to make Americans, particularly Americans of Irish descent, more knowledgeable about the ongoing human rights abuses in the north of Ireland, and about the

fact that the only way to attain a just and sustainable peace is to address the human rights question, aggressively, honestly, and transparently. So I want to again thank the Hibernians for your leadership on this.

Let me also acknowledge that Congressman Neal is here. If you have any comments, you are welcome to make them.

Mr. NEAL. I will wait.

Mr. SMITH. OK, thank you.

STATEMENT OF MARY E. PAGLIONE, NATIONAL PRESIDENT, LADIES ANCIENT ORDER OF HIBERNIANS IN AMERICA

Mrs. PAGLIONE. Mr. Chairman, thank you for this opportunity to address this committee. I am Mary Paglione, president of the Ladies Ancient Order of Hibernians in America.

The LAOH was established in 1894, and now has over 11,000 members from all over the United States. Like the AOH, we are committed to our Irish heritage and our Catholic faith, and support our brothers and sisters in all of Ireland.

Despite the circumstances that force many of our ancestors to these shores, we are proud of the Irish contribution to America, and even prouder now to have the opportunity to give something back to Ireland; hopefully, peace with justice.

The very real and systematic abuse of human rights that have taken place in the six counties of Northern Ireland are a matter of utmost concern to the members of the Ladies Ancient Order of Hibernians. In August, 1995, on a tour of Ireland with the officers and members of the LAOH and the AOH we participated in a mass at the cathedral in Armagh. A woman approached me and two other officers who were wearing officers' sashes that are orange, white and green, which is the color of the Irish flag. Her statement to us was, "My, but you are brave to wear the tri-colors here." At that time we thought little of it. Yet it shows the fear that the residents of that area live under.

I will not try to enumerate the specifics or try to point out to you the most horrific instances. That we are here today indicates that the problem is at last being addressed by the appropriate body, the U.S. Congress. You have already heard many distinguished panelists give their views today. I would like to offer mine from the perspective of an Irish-American woman, wife, and mother.

For each act of abuse, there is a shockwave of victims. Each victim of abuse is a son, a husband, a sister, a daughter. Their pain is not felt alone. It is no surprise that the loudest voices called for peace in Northern Ireland are those of women. Being a Catholic woman in Northern Ireland carries with it the double burden of discrimination, a system that ridicules your religion, allows church goers to be pelted and stoned on the way to mass, and then places women lower on the employment list than any other category. It is not only abusing basic human rights, it is an affront to human dignity.

The LAOH has always been concerned with human rights abuses in Northern Ireland. I recently appointed Eileen C. McNeill of Ohio, chairperson, National Office of Catholic Action, to serve with me on this committee. The LAOH is participating in a prisoners dependents' fund, St. Paul's Parish Church in Belfast, to assist with

their building fund. Our record of donations to human rights funds is well documented. The LAOH has been constant in prayers for peace and justice throughout our history.

As a resident of Florence Township, Burlington County, New Jersey, I live within the 4th Congressional District represented by Congressman Christopher H. Smith. I thank you, Chairman Smith, and the members of this committee on behalf of the Ladies Ancient Order of Hibernians in America and all women of goodwill. I urge you to pursue with appropriate legislation and the moral authority of these United States an end to the abuse of basic human rights practiced in Northern Ireland with great dispatch.

Thank you very much.

[The prepared statement of Mrs. Paglione appears in the appendix.]

Mr. SMITH. Mrs. Paglione, thank you very much for your testimony and for your leadership on this issue.

Let me ask one general question, and perhaps our witnesses from Ireland will take a stab at this first. Now that the baton has been passed to the Blair Government, do you believe that there is a heightened sense of expectancy and hope? There is also the fact that our own President is more energized on this-and the Congress, I believe, is now going to step up to the plate and do what it ought to do, and become more aggressive in our relationship with the United Kingdom. As a friend of the United Kingdom, we must demand that there be true justice and respect for human rights.

It is easy to criticize a developing country, a Third World country, which has little or no commerce or cultural contact or ties with us, and much harder when it is a good ally that was with us in the Persian Gulf. But I think it is all the more reason why we need to speak out loud and clear, with a lucid sense of what the problem is.

Is it your sense that there could be some changes in the offing? Mr. FINUCANE. I remain optimistic that change will come from the point of view of President Clinton's involvement, and I think, and I am sure Jim will agree with me on this, you would really have had to have been present in Belfast the day he made his appearance with the First Lady. It was quite an undescribable feeling. The people were lifted immeasurably. There is really nothing I can compare it to that would do the occasion justice. And President Clinton's involvement is vital because through his influence on the mechanisms of the two governments, and when they come together it can make a very, very serious difference on the ground. The noticeable absence of RUČ officers and army soldiers during the cease-fire in which America played no small part was commented on on a daily basis by the people of Northern Ireland.

But as far as that involvement is concerned it needs to be continuing, and Mr. Blair, it must be said, is in a different position from his predecessor in that he has a strong government majority and is not beholden to independent elected representatives who may hold the balance of power. I think that majority should be used and used to good effect.

And although from my own point of view I remain optimistic, the lessons of recent years have shown that optimism can be very short