Immigration quotas, European countries, and demands for immigration visas (based unon reports of American consular officers, July 1, 1928)-Continued

1 Although the Russian quota of 2,248 applies to Asiatic as well as European Russia, almost the entire Russian immigration comes from European Russia.

The CHAIRMAN. In the report I observe that you refer to the volume entitled "A Century of Population Growth as being one of the means by which you determine your quotas under the national origins; is that correct?

Mr. BOGGS. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. When was the Century of Population Growth published?

Mr. BOGGS. 1910.

The CHAIRMAN. Who was the author?

Mr. BOGGS. I think perhaps Doctor Hill had better speak on that point. It was done in the Bureau of the Census.

The CHAIRMAN. The reason for that question, Mr. Boggs, was to see whether or not the detail was in your mind or whether you had accepted Doctor Hill's conclusion in reference to this matter of national origins.

Mr. BOGGS. Well, I may say that the committee has utilized the Century of Population Growth to a considerable extent. There has been, of course, a thorough agreement between Doctor Hill and myself in utilizing it, and we have made allowance on the basis of later studies for the anglicization of names prior to 1790.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the study that you made in reference to the anglicization of names since 1790?

Mr. BOGGS. We utilized quite largely some research which was done by two men working under the American Council of Learned So

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cieties, of which Doctor Hill will probably speak in more detail. But there is practically no difference in opinion as to the extent to which that anglicization has taken place.

The CHAIRMAN. You say there is no difference?

Mr. BOGGS. Very little difference. The figures which we used last year, compared to the percentages as reported in a provisional report of this special committee under the American Council of Learned Societies, very recently published, are very similar.

The CHAIRMAN. I did not catch that name.

Mr. BOGGS. The American Council of Learned Societies.

The CHAIRMAN. Where does that society have its headquarters, if you please?

Mr. BOGGS. Doctor Hill is a member of the committee, and I think it would be better for him to speak to that point, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. Now, this particular volume that seems to be the basis of at least one element of your computation, the Century of Population Growth

Mr. BOGGS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Was any check made with respect to the statement made therein contained, by you?

Mr. BOGGS. By myself, you mean?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. BOGGS. I would say I simply used the work which has been done in the Bureau of the Census with the collaboration of these specialists.

The CHAIRMAN. When did we have our first census?

Mr. BOGGS. In 1790.

The CHAIRMAN. And was it accurate?

Mr. BOGGS. I know it is the opinion of the people in the census that it was at least as accurate as the present census.

Senator COPELAND. How is that, Mr. Boggs?

Mr. BOGGS. It is the opinion of the people in the census that it was at least as accurate as the present census.

Senator COPELAND. That the 1790 census was as accurate?
Mr. BOGGS. As the present census; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. He says "the present census." I am wondering if he is damning with faint praise or using that comparison for the purpose of indicating it was a remarkably accurate census.

Mr. BOGGS. I am not passing judgment on that census; I am saying it is my understanding that it is believed to be as accurate as the latest census. But I am not speaking of the study of the

names.

The CHAIRMAN. There is a relative statement that you make, and I do not know whether you mean by that the present or recent census, the last one we had, was accurate or sufficiently accurate? Mr. BOGGS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. So that you speak, then, with the same degrees of praise as to the census of 1790?

Mr. BOGGS. As to the number in the population; yes, sir.

Senator COPELAND. Mr. Chairman, if that is true, you and I and members of the Commerce Committee must do something to try to make the next census an accurate one. If my impression is correct about the First Census, it must be very inaccurate.

Mr. BOGGS. I am not speaking of the study of names in the First Census; simply the number reported.

The CHAIRMAN. As I understand Mr. Boggs, he says the number is as accurate as any census.

Senator COPELAND. That has been seriously questioned by the Irish societies, has it not, Mr. Boggs?

Mr. BOGGS. I think you refer perhaps to the number of the Irish as estimated in the "Century of population growth rather than the total population in the 1790 census.

Senator COPELAND. Well, if I am correctly advised by these learned men from the Irish society, they think that many Irishmen were omitted from that First Census. I speak of it that way, because I have seen figures in reference to no others.

Mr. BOGGS. That is right.

Senator NYE. Senator, so they challenge the total number reported? Senator COPELAND. Yes.

Senator NYE. I understand so. Do you happen to know, Mr. Boggs, the man in New York who furnished those figures, who pointed out how many Mc's and O'Leary's, and so forth, there were in the Continental Army, and then compare it with the census and they could not find those names as they did not appear at all in the census? Mr. BOGGS. I have read the report.

Senator COPELAND. My impression is they seriously questioned the inclusion of these persons in the census, and I should really, having that impression, be surprised to learn that the census just taken is as mistaken as that was in 1790.

I would like to ask one other question, Mr. Boggs, simply to have the record clear in the matter: I find from your statement that apparently the southern and eastern European groups are not particularly affected by the new plan; that is, their admissions are in about the same relative proportion as Great Britain has in the present law?

Mr. BOGGS. Taken as a group, they are very much the same as they now are, but under the national-origins basis the quota of Great Britain and northern Ireland will be increased.

Senator COPELAND. But when we come to the continental Nordic races the Swedes, Norwegians, and Germans-we find a material percentage of reduction over Great Britain.

Mr. BOGGS. The principal differences are that the quota of Great Britain is increased and the quotas of Germany and the Scandinavian countries and the Irish Free State are decreased-that is, all within the northern and western group of European countries. Senator COPELAND. Swedes about two-fifths, Norwegians twothirds, and the Germans one-fourth?

Mr. BOGGS. I think so.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions desired to be asked Mr. Boggs?

Senator REED. Mr. Boggs, have you any other material that the committee ought to know about that will assist us in the inquiry? Mr. BOGGS. I would hardly know how to answer your question. Senator REED. Do you know what the committee is trying to determine? We would be glad of any light you can give us.

The CHAIRMAN. What we are seeking or, rather, what I am seeking is to ascertain whether it is better to let this matter ride for

another year, with the confusion we have been having for the past two years, or attempt to force action at the present time in putting the national origins into operation. That is what I desire light

upon.

Mr. BOGGS. The only thing I can say there is that the results are practically as good as they can be made, and it is for Congress to determine whether they shall be utilized.

The CHAIRMAN. As a policy, that is so?

Mr. BOGGS. Certainly.

The CHAIRMAN. And you say the results at the present time are quite as good as they can be made?

Mr. BOGGS. As we will report them very shortly.

The CHAIRMAN. When will you have your report ready?

Mr. BOGGS. I should say during the present Congress certainly, and I do not know how much sooner.

The CHAIRMAN. "During the present Congress" would be about three or four weeks more.

Mr. BOGGS. It can be done in less time than that, I think.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions of Mr. Boggs? Senator REED. I think, if Mr. Boggs does not mind giving it, I would like to have his personal opinion on this: Which is the more accurate method of dividing these quotas? I am not asking you for the opinion of the Department of State or the quota board's opinion, but your personal opinion.

Mr. BOGGS. I would rather confine myself to the facts and the adequacy of the facts, sir. I am not concerned

Senator REED. We are very much concerned.

The CHAIRMAN. I think that is a very wise conclusion on the part of Mr. Boggs.

Senator REED. There is nobody in the United States who has studied it more, and if he has any personal opinion I think the committee would be impressed by it.

Mr. BOGGS. If I may, I would rather not attempt to pass on the question.

The CHAIRMAN. By the way, in the computations you have made is there such a thing as differential of fecundity?

Mr. BOGGS. That is something I would rather leave for Doctor Hill to answer, if I may. I do not wish to dodge anything, but, you see, there have been two distinct phases of the study-the census statistics, and then the geographical adjustment, and my task was confined wholly to the geographical adjustment and to studying whether the material for that purpose was sufficient.

The CHAIRMAN. But you did agree to the report, did you not, that was submitted?

Mr. BOGGS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know whether that report included such a differential of fecundity?

Mr. BOGGS. As reported last year, indirectly it did.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, sir; then, I will ask Doctor Hill about that, unless some of you gentlemen wish to ask further questions. Senator NYE. All of these facts and details you have given us this morning are the property of one nation pretty well known by the members of that commission, including the Secretary of State.