security reason for limiting either the quantity or the size of carryon baggage. Moreover, I believe-I am not expert in this particular areathat the industry believes that there are regulations already on the books promulgated by the FAA covering carry-on baggage, and that rather than new regulations being needed what might be needed, if anything, is enforcement or a procedural improvement to implement the regulations that already exist. ATA OPINION OF SECURITY PERSONNEL Mr. MINETA. Are the airlines satisfied about the performance of the people who are manning x ray machines and searching baggage, and doing the security work at the entry point to gate areas? At many U.S. airports these are generally low paying or minimum paying jobs, and of course, the work can be quite tedious. And I wonder if the same problem exists at foreign airports. I was citing the example to our chairman. Recently, when I was coming through putting my baggage on the conveyor, and the person is looking at the x ray machine saying, what am I supposed to be looking for. I guess that sort of looks like a gun. I don't know if it is. And frankly, I just about fell out of my chair. And not long after that I had a meeting with the presidents of two large security firms that have these rent-a-cops at these security gates. And frankly, I was very upset about the kind of people they have and the training level. And I am wondering if there is anything that ATA or the carriers themselves are doing to try and improve the effectiveness of those people at the gates who are having to not only assist people, but also look at the luggage. Mr. LALLY. I think the carriers are striving constantly to assure a proper level of vigilance and performance. As you mentioned, it is a tedious job. The numbers are awesome when you are talking about 400 airports just in the United States, 15,000 flights a day, 1 million passengers a day, 700 million people screened a year, 11⁄2 billion pieces of carry-on baggage. So, we have got an awesome system. But the effectiveness has been remarkable in terms of weapons and firearms detected, arrests made, and by FAA's account more than 115 hijackings or other crimes prevented by this system. So, what we have is a system of a great scope and magnitude, but one that has proved remarkably effective. But nevertheless, we appear to have particularly maybe at this point in time when society's sensitivities are high-we might have a perception problem in that people perceive what they might think to be an inattentive worker, you know, may not be as inattentive as he appears. Nevertheless, the airlines work constantly to try to improve that performance. All of the screening personnel are selected and trained in accordance with FAA standards. The training programs are approved by FAA. The system is tested by FAA. The training is monitored by FAA, and everything that is being done I think is adequate to raise that level. Nevertheless, the work continues. As far as the minimum wage comments are concerned, that is an easy statement to make. I would challenge whether it is minimum wage everywhere. But nevertheless, like any other task, you are dealing with a labor market, and you cannot dictate the economies of the labor market. But I would venture to say that we could hire a Ph.D. and pay him $100,000 a year and put him on the same job and he probably would not do as good-perform as well as the people that are doing it today. So, I think it is a complex thing, and it involves motivation. It involves discipline. It involves supervision and management. And all of those avenues are being followed by the industry and by FAA. Mr. MINETA. Mr. Chairman, if I might make a comment. The problem is that that security is not just a problem with the airlines. I come from Silicon Valley. Firms there hire these same kinds of people, same firms, same rent-a-cops, minimum wage, and they lose millions, hundreds of millions of dollars of semiconductor chips. And the problem I think is training. It is the boring part of the job. They get tempted by people who bring drugs onto the scene. And I see this problem, and it is frankly no different-I do not think-in the airline business as it is in the semiconductor industry. And we have a tremendous problem in Silicon Valley right now on this thing despite the downturn of the economy. But let me just make one quick comment about the carry-on luggage. If you have got an enforcement problem, as you say Mr. Lally, I also see that as a compliance problem. And it seems to me that from that perspective, compliance is the responsibility of the airlines. So, why isn't there better compliance by the airlines? Mr. LALLY. I cannot answer that, Mr. Mineta. That is not my field of expertise, but I can provide a statement for the record on that point. I can talk to the security aspects of the problem, but not to the others. Chairman FASCELL. Dan Mica. AIRLINES WILLINGNESS TO BOYCOTT Mr. MICA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand we have about 2 minutes before we have to leave here. So, very quickly, Mr. Hallissey, are you willing to call for restricted travel in tourism now in order to have enlarged or increased travel later if the situation requires? Mr. HALLISSEY. I am not sure what you mean by restricted travel. Mr. MICA. Well, if we have indications that certain countries are not cooperating or involved in terrorism. The airline pilots have talked about boycotts, about putting themselves in the position where it would be economically damaging. Is the tourist industry willing to do that? Mr. HALLISSEY. I understand your question now. Thank you. Our position has been traditionally that tourism, travel, would transcend politics, but it certainly would not transcend the safety of the passenger or the traveler. Mr. MICA. Is travel down dramatically to Europe right now? Mr. MICA. What kind of figures do you have? Mr. HALLISSEY. There is such a variety of figures. One of the attempts of the council that I mentioned in my report to you was to look for the clearinghouse of accurate figures because they seem to be bouncing all over. The figures that the chairman mentioned in his opening statement seemed rather wild to us when he said that a newspaper article had said travel to Europe was down 90-percent. I do not quite believe those figures to be that high. I do not know the source of them, and I do not know the accuracy of that source. I would quickly say off the record-or not off the record, but off the top of my head, what we are reading now, 25, 30 percent drop in travel sales to Europe is an estimate that we have been hearing lately. Mr. MICA. I will tell you, my quick opinion is that you and your industry are probably in possession of the greatest nonmilitary weapon we have right now. And that is economic and it is tourism. It is unfortunate, but it may come to you to help carry the flag on this. Chairman FASCELL. It is pretty tough though, isn't it Dan, for the guys who are supposed to be selling tickets not to sell tickets? Mr. MICA. It is going to be very, very tough. Mr. HALLISSEY. But gentlemen, if I can speak to that. I know our time is running short. Mr. MICA. The same with the pilots. Mr. HALLISSEY. The same thing across the board. The thing that we have been attempting to do-and the letter that I referred to the President-because we are located in 128 countries that through the tourism network of people we can talk to administrators and leaders of the tourism business and world throught out the world. France announced 6 to 8 weeks ago that tourism was their No. 1 product. We can talk to the tourism officials to get to the government officials and stress the economics of what is happening, which far outweighs some of the other measures that they may not be looking at. Mr. MICA. Mr. Chairman, I would like to pursue that, but I know we are out of time. I want to commend TWA for the extra work you have done above and beyond all call of duty with your security work. At another time I would like to see where you feel host governments should pick up the task. In some cases you have had to do that for them. We commend you. I commend you for it. We have looked at some of the particular work of your airline. You have done a fantastic job, and you have been the subject of some attacks. I will submit additional questions for the record. Chairman FASCELL. Mr. Chairman, let me just say that your point is well taken, and we want to commend all of you for your cooperation and your efforts on this very serious problem. Mr. Hallissey? Mr. HALLISSEY. One last comment and a request, gentlemen. GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT IN TSPC We have a severe need. We think that the Travelers' Security Policy Council needs Government involvement. It must have Government involvement. We would like you to make VSTTA the Gov ernment involved organization if we can request it. They were initially part of the council and then removed themselves, and we think it is an urgent message that they should be involved. Mr. MICA. Isn't the administration trying to get rid of the USTA? Mr. HALLISSEY. Indeed, but I think that the Congress will not allow that to happen. Mr. MICA. Talk to them. Mr. HALLISSEY. Hundreds of calls going to the State Department everyday. People are asking questions about where it is safe to go. Yet, no one seems to give them an explicit response. Mr. MICA. Tell the President to put it in the budget. Mr. HALLISSEY. Thank you, sir. Gentlemen, thank you very much. Chairman FASCELL. The meeting stands adjourned. [Whereupon, at 12:55 p.m., the hearing was adjourned to reconvene at 10 a.m. on Tuesday, April 22, 1986.] EFFECTIVENESS OF U.S. GOVERNMENT POLICIES AND PROGRAMS TO COMBAT THE INCREASED THREAT OF LIBYAN AND OTHER STATE-SPONSORED TERRORISM TUESDAY, APRIL 22, 1986 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AF- Washington, DC. The joint subcommittees met at 10:10 a.m., in room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Dante B. Fascell (chairman of the Subcommittee on Arms Control, International Security and Science) presiding. Chairman FASCELL. The subcommittees will come to order. We meet today to continue our hearings on international terrorism and to review the effectiveness of U.S. Government policies and programs to combat the increased threat of Libyan and other State-sponsored terrorism. I am pleased to note the progress on diplomatic sanctions which were adopted yesterday at the EC Foreign Ministers meeting in Luxembourg. This is certainly a good first step. However, more needs to be done, and our European allies should go the next step; that is, closing the Libyan People's Bureaus, which have been used over and over again to carry out terrorist activities against innocent men, women, and children. But it is important now to build on the strong foundation of our alliance and collectively agree to fight the scourge of terrorism. In this respect, the establishment of an International Coordinating Committee on Terrorism can achieve such an objective. I am sure we do not find ourselves at cross-purposes with our friends and allies in the fight against this menace. The committees will be particularly interested in the Secretary's views on the establishment of such a committee. In addition, we look forward to hearing from our expert witnesses from the Department of Transportation and FAA on the implementation of the Foreign Airport Security Act and specifically the security of the Rome, Athens and Cairo airports. These have all too frequently been the target of terrorist activity. |