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and go straight out to sea through the Bay of Limon, even though it must cost $1,000,000 or $2,000,000 more to do it, in the interest of safety. You have my idea?

. Mr. STEVENS. Yes, sir. Senator MORGAN. Do you agree with it, or do you wish to correct it?

Mr. STEVENS. I agree with this much of it, that a straight channel is better than a curved one at that point. Colon is practically an open roadstead. As far as my reading goes, it seems that the ships pull out from the docks, but it is not on account of the heavy winds that prevail at the time that the boats are lying there, but it is on account of the heavy swell that comes in, and if they remained tied up to the docks those swells would not only smash the docks but probably the ship as well, and so when those northers come up they cast off their lines and go out to sea. I understand they often go way to Portobello to ride out a storm.

Senator MORGAN. That is 25 miles away?

Mr. STEVENS. I believe it is; I have never been there. So to my mind, whichever way is chosen, there should be, first, a harbor that is safe, and, second, a channel leading to it in alignment in size and direction that is absolutely safe at all times.

Senator MORGAN. Do these hydrographic reports already spoken of indicate that a norther may pass across the waters of the Caribbean Sea 200 miles, even, from Colon, and that the swells from such a norther may reach Colon and make it really dangerous to the ships in there; so that those heavy seas are not always attended by high winds at Colon, that is my point. Now, on the other side, if you please, for a moment. Take either form of canal, the sea level or a lock canal., Is the channel that is there now dredged out between those three islands and La Boca up to the building

of that dock, or whatever it is, liable to fill up by drifts?

Mr. STEVENS. There is more or less filling going on all the time. I am working with a dredge in the channel and at the two docks—the old dock and the new dock.

Senator MORGAN. Where did that silt come from?

Mr. STEVENS. That is the discussion among the engineers and various people who have noted it. Some had the theory that it is sand that is brought down from the Rio Grande River, others that it sweeps in from the west, from the shallow ground to the northwest of the bunch of islands.

Senator MORGAX. In either event would it not be proper in the construction of a great canal there 40 feet deep to avoid that difficulty.

Mr. STEVENS. It would be better, of course.
Senator MORGAN. The best thing to do is the thing we have to do.
Mr. STEVENS. You can do either of two things-

Senator Morgan. Therefore, in entering the Bay of Panama with a canal, I want to ask you whether it would not be better in every sense to make a channel out to the 40-foot contour; that is about where we want to get to, directly out, straight out from the shore, wherever we might touch it, to the 40-foot contour.

Mr. STEVENS. I do not think that at that particular place it would make any difference; that is simply my opinion. Of course in reference to a channel that is not yet dredged, parallel with another,

only a few hundred feet away, no person can express more than an opinion until it is really dug.

Senator Morgan. If you have to take that in in one case, you have to take in the contributions of the Rio Grande River in the other', because you have excluded that.

Mr. STEVENS. I do not think the contributions of the Rio Grande would amount to anything.

Senator MORGAN. "You do not?

Mr. STEVENS. No; I think it is a little drift across the channel that does it.

Senator MORGAN. Do you know whether there is a plan for a channel that undertakes to enter the bay southward of the city of Panama?

Mr. STEVENS. Southward ? Senator MORGAN. Yes. Did you ever hear a proposition of that kind?

Mr. STEVENS. Excuse me, but I think you mean eastward.
Senator MORGAN. Yes.
Mr. STEVENS. Down toward South America ?
Senator MORGAN. Yes.

Mr. STEVENS. No; I have never heard of a proposition of that kind; if so, it has escaped my reading.

Senator MORGAN. A proposition like that appeared to me and I wanted to know whether there was any foundation for it.

Senator KITTREDGE. What would be the effect of the northers upon the canal if the canal was straight out to sea ?

Mr. STEVENS. Well, that is a pretty hard question, Senator. You mean in filling up the channel ?

Senator KITTREDGE. Yes; and the swells and every element that you have suggested?

Mr. STEVENS. I think that the exposed portions of the canal—that is, when you get out of Limon Bay proper--must be jettied, must be protected by breakwaters. That is my opinion. You have asked me lots of questions about points upon which I have not had the benefit of anybody's studies, nothing except my own observations, and when I am a little doubtful about it I want you gentlemen to understand the reason.

Senator KITTREDGE. It is suggested by Senator Morgan that it would be better to have a straight line from the canal to the sea. Now, the northers blow heavily there, of course, at times and the swell is heavy. Would that in any way endanger the canal proper ?

Mr. STEVENS. I do not think so. Of course in case of a channel that is cut, no matter how wide and what depth, through a flat or a shallow harbor there is always danger of its filling up.

Senator GORMAN. You have made a very frank statement about the conditions on the Isthmus when you took charge and what your predecessor accomplished and left undone. It leaves one branch we have not touched upon, and that is that numerous surveys have been made, not only on the line of the canal, but more particularly for the dam suggested. To what extent do you find that survey was made by your predecessor? Mr. ŠTEVENS. The work was going along in very good shape. Senator GORMAN. How many parties had he organized ?

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Mr. STEVENS. Well, it is hard work to say, because the work was not being done by regular organized parties in every case—that is, men were detailed to do different works from different places. They were carrying on surveys up on the Chagres, across the divides, between the Chagres and the Caribbean Sea, for the open-cut proposition and tunnels, and then a great deal of work was being done in locating the old French points of the canal, which had never been defined so as to enable it to be exactly mapped. Then the location of the contour lines to the drainage districts of these heavy tributary streams was going on.

Senator GORMAN. How much had you to assist you in completing those examinations?

Mr. STEVENS. We worked probably five or six parties, the equal of five or six parties, I suppose, during the entire time, until recently. We are not doing much now.

Senator GORMAN. Practically the same parties?
Mr. STEVENS. Yes, sir.
Senator GORMAN. So there was a valuable contribution there?
Mr. STEVENS. No doubt of that.

Senator GORMAN. And is it on the data so obtained that you are now about to determine the type of canal ?

Mr. STEVENS. It was, of course, pursued with that end in view, to get that information, and a large quantity of it was turned over to the consulting board.

Senator GORMAN. And a valuable work was accomplished, was it? Mr. STEVENS. I think so, without doubt.

Senator GORMAN. Do you consider that survey now complete, so that you, as an engineer, are content to rest the construction of the dams, for instance, on the data you have?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes; I feel confident of it.

Senator GORMAN. You have sufficient data to undertake a dam 200 feet under ground, to get a start?

Mr. STEVENS. You are asking me now about some details which I would like to study up a little before answering.

Senator GORMAN. Yes, sir: What I want to get is whether, in your judgment, that survey is as complete as it can be made through the parties under Mr. Wallace, supplemented by your own?

Mr. STEVENS. I think so. There is no doubt but what Mr. Wallace and his engineers were working along right lines, according to my information, and have done a great deal of valuable work.

Senator SIMMONS. I just want to ask you one or two questions. You said you had built some hotels and some houses there. Were there not a good many houses already there, built by the French?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes; a large number.
Senator SIMMONS. How many?
Mr. STEVENS. Something over 2.000, large and small.
Senator SIMMOxs. Any hotels?
Mr. STEVENS. Almost entirely laborers' cottages.
Senator SIMMONS. Where were they located ?

Mr. STEVENS. All along the route of the canal from one end to the other.

Senator SIMMONS. Have you been able to utilize any of them?

Mr. STEVENS. We have repaired vast numbers of them, and are still doing so.

Senator SIMMONS. What percentage of them will you be able to use by repairing them? Mr. STEVENS. I should say 80 per cent. Senator SIMMONS. So they are not worthless? Mr. STEVENS. No, sir.

Senator SIMMONS. You spoke about the sanitation. Where has your work of sanitation been conducted chiefly?

Mr. STEVENS. All along, wherever there are any settlers.

Senator SIMMONS. Have you not done most of the work at Panama?

Mr. STEVENS. No, sir; not altogether. We are working all over the Zone—at every town where there are any people living.

Senator SIMMONS. What is the character of that work of sanitation?

Mr. STEVENS. Draining marshes, cutting grass and brush, clearing away around the camps.

Senator SIMMONS. That is at each end of the canal ?

Mr. STEVENS. Oh, no; all along. You see there are fifteen or eighteen small towns along the route of the canal--all the way through.

Senator SIMMONS. Were not these houses that the French built located largely at Colon and Panama?

Mr. STEVENS. No; practically none were located at Colon, except some we are using for white quarters, and practically none at Panama. They were along the line of the canal.

Senator SIMMONS. Has that work of sanitation advanced in a satisfactory way?

Mr. STEVENS. To me, extremely so. You understand I do not direct sanitation; I have nothing to do with it, except the general interest I have in the work. I only judge from results.

Senator SIMMONS. You think the health in the islands and sanitary conditions, and so on, are in reasonably good condition?

Mr. STEVENS. I do; yes, sir. If you will let me explain or illustrate a little in regard to that?

a Senator SIMMONS. Certainly.

Mr. STEVENS. The greatest menace to health there to-day is the same that obtains along the Gulf and Mississippi River States, and it is from malaria.

Senator SIMMONS. No worse, you think? Mr. STEVENS. As far as malaria is concerned, I should say no. Senator SIMMONS. And in regard to yellow fever? Mr. STEVENS. As far as yellow fever is concerned, no; and especially taking into consideration New Orleans and its yellow fever this past year. To my mind the health conditions on the Isthmus, on which the success of the canal depends, are now largely a matter of quarantine. The Isthmus, of course, is a great thoroughfare; thousands of people go over it from all parts of the world. Of course, naturally, in the Spanish-American countries their sanitary and quarantine regulations are not up to our standard, and that entails on our quarantine officers a harder task-for instance, if St. John or Liverpool were the ports they had to guard against—and so far as yellow fever is concerned, I do not say that there will not be spasmodic cases once in a while. But if we can succeed in keeping it from the outside I do not think we have anything to fear from that. Senator SIMMONS. Your greatest danger there is from malaria?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes; from malaria. I lived in Texas for three vears when I was a young man, and I was exposed there constantly to malaria ; I had chills and fever for nearly three solid years; no man ever suffered any worse from it. I do not believe that there is any section where malaria is any worse than where I was, in the southeastern part of Texas along the Sabine River and through Beaumont and Sabine Pass, and I do not think there is any more malaria on the Isthmus than there is in the section of Texas I refer to or in some other parts of our southern States. For instance, in the last two or three years I have been in charge of a piece of road between Little Rock and Memphis. From Memphis, 40 miles west across a swamp land, it has been almost impossible to employ section men to work there on account of the malaria. The only possible labor we have been able to keep there at all is colored labor, to which we paid 25 cents a day in excess of what we paid anywhere else on the line. Now, that condition, as I have said, applies to all that section of the country, and so in Panama it is malaria that is to be dreaded.

Senator SIMMONS. After you have finished your projected work of sanitation do you think the health conditions will be reasonably sa fe for people of the white race?

Mr. STEVENS. I do. But do not understand that the sanitation work will ever be finished there.

Senator Simmons. But when you have carried out your general plan

Mr. STEVENS. Yes. I took my wife and child there last fall, and they were healthy while they were there.

Senator SIMMONS. You think there is nothing in the health conditions of the Isthmus to interfere with the success of the canal ?

Mr. STEVENS. If properly handled, no sir; I do not.

Senator SIMMONS. And there is no more sickness among the employees than you think would be usual in malarial countries?

Mr. STEVENS. I think not; no, sir.

Senator SIMMONS. Such as the Gulf States and the part of Texas that you have referred to?

Mr. STEVENS. I do not think so; no, sir. There is this to be said in refernece to the sanitary records. In the Gulf States, the Mississippi Valley, or anywhere else for that matter, even in the North, a person will get a chill and have a fever, and he will keep on walking around and attend to his business. The men down there if they are attacked do not do that; when a man has a chill he is taken to the hospital at once. In that way the number of the cases in the hospital and the number of cases of fever as shown by the records are a great many more than are shown

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here. Senator SIMMONS. I understand. Where do you get your drinking water from down there?

Mr. STEVENS. In Panama, from a reservoir back about 10 miles in the hills, at Culebra, and at Empire we get it from the same source. This reservoir is back near these towns.

Senator SIMMONS. Have you built those reservoirs ?
Mr. STEVENS. Yes; we have built them.

Senator SIMMONS. Do they supply water all along the route of the canal ?

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