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Senator GORMAN. I do.
Mr. STEVENS. I can find it in the records.
Senator GORMAN. And will you let us have it?
Mr. STEVENS. Yes, sir.

Senator GORMAN. Do you know the amount that we expended or contracted for, for the equipment of that road, prior to your taking charge?

Mr. STEVENS. There were 24 engines, which, I suppose, cost on an average of about $13,000 per engine—perhaps a little more. There was 500 box cars—well, I can not give you the amount. Senator GORMAN. Can you

furnish a statement of the whole amount involved in the way of cost, either in purchases or contracts, on that account, for equipment?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes, sir.

Senator GORMAN. And then the amount that you have contracted for since you have taken the Isthmus in charge ?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes, sir; I will do that. I will take those from the orders on the books direct. But while we are on that point, I want to go on record as saying that I do not favor changing the gauge of the Panama Railroad. It is a 5-foot gauge, in contradistinction to our 4 foot 84 inch gauge here.

Senator GORMAN. You have not changed it?
Mr. STEVENS. No, sir.

Senator TALIAFERRO. Could you not get your rolling stock more economically if you had the standard gauge !

Mr. STEVENS. No, sir. It makes practically no difference at all. Senator TALIAFERRO. Could you not buy cheaper ?

Mr. STEVENS. I presume you could buy your ties a trifle cheaper, because they are 6 inches or a foot shorter. There may be a little difference owing to the extra width; but, on the contrary, a 5-foot gauge road is a cheaper road to operate.

Senator TALIAFERRO. Not cheaper to maintain, however?

Mr. STEVENS. Well, it would be a very fine point to find any difference, I think, in the maintenance down there.

Senator Hopkins. Explain what you mean by “cheaper to operate."

Mr. STEVENS. I mean this: That practically a firebox can not be built on scientific lines to burn coal as economically under forced draft with a 4 foot 8} inch gauge as it can with a 5-foot and if the big railroad men of the United States to-day will tell what they really think—and there is no reason why they should not--they will say that they are all sorry that the gauge is not 6 feet. It is a mathematical impossibility to build a perfect firebox for a less

Senator HOPKINS. They are not building railroads with a 6-foot gauge in this country, though, are they?

Mr. STEVENS. No; they can not do that, on account of breaking bulk, you know. They must have a standard gauge. They settled down on the 4 foot 81 inch gauge years ago; they are committed to it now, and there is no getting away from it; but with the Panama Railroad it is different. We have no connections, and the chances are very remote that we ever will, that will amount to anything. If there is a railroad up and down the Isthmus, the Panama Railroad, after the canal is built, will not amount to much.

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Senator Kxox. What was the gauge of that broad-gauge line that we had once in this country--the Atlantic and Great Western, was it not?

Mr. STEVENS. I think that was 6 feet.

Senator HOPKINS. The consensus of opinion in this country, however, is that here 4 feet 8 is the proper gauge?

Mr. STEVENS. It is the proper gauge, because it is utterly impossible to get so many owners to put in the money to change the entire systems of the country; and you must have a gauge that is interchangeable with your equipment, otherwise you have to break bulk every time you get to the end of a fellow's railroad; and it costs as much to break bulk as it does to haul freight two or three hundred miles on the road. But it is a fact, a mechanical fact, that our gauge is too narrow.

Senator GORMAX, Mr. Stevens, the whole estimated amount of the improvement of the wharves and of the new track on the main line and the equipment will be covered by the question I asked you. How much of that would be properly chargeable to the construction of the canal ?

Mr. STEVENS. That is according to the point of view from which you look at it, it seems to me. As I said before, the Panama Railroad, with its track and its equipment properly kept up--which means that from time to time new rolling stock must be purchased to take the place of that that is destroyed, new rails must be bought, docks must be maintained and occasionally rebuilt, especially if they are woodthe Panama Railroad, outside of the work it has to do in the building of the canal, hauling material, could take care of the commercial business, especially in view of the fact that it is liable to have a serious competitor in the immediate future—the Tehuantepec Railway.

From that point of view, considering that the ownership of both the canal and the railway are in one party-the United States—it is fair enough to sar that the entire cost of anything exceeding the cost of the original Panama Railroad should be charged to the canal. Take the case of the double tracking. The cost of building this double track is assumed by the canal; the cost of maintaining both tracks, which are used indiscriminately for the traffic over both the canal and commercial, is to be borne by the railroad company.

Senator GORIAS. And they are charging so much for the Government service for hauling the dirt ?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes, sir.

Senator GORMAN. Has that adjustment been made, fixing a rate per ton per mile?

Mr. STEVENS. Well, they have a rate. I do not remember now how much it is; but I do not think it has finally been decided.

Senator GORJIX. It has not been?

Mr. STEVENS. So, sir. I do not know just what they are charg. ing now.

As far as passenger service is concerned, we have a stated sum a month that the Commission pays to the railway for handling its employees. It is not enough to pay for it; I have asked for more; I do not know whether they will give it to me or not. It is $3,000 a month; and taking one-half of the regular passenger rates, it cost us something over $1,000 in November. But that was merely adopted as a blanket sum until we could determine what was a fair compensation.

Senator GORMAN. I understand you to say that all the equipment which you have purchased and contracted for is of American manufacture?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes, sir.
Senator GORMAN. None foreign?
Mr. STEVENS. None foreign.

Senator GORMAN. How do the prices compare with those of American engines sold abroad?

Mr. STEVENS. I could not tell you about that. I can only compare them with the prices where I have bought in the last year. I have bought for private companies a very large amount, several million dollars' worth. I can only make comparison with those prices.

Senator GORMAN. By bids, advertising?

Mr. STEVENS. Oh, yes, sir. I happened to remember the price of the rail. I think the last 5,000 tons of rail we bought (it was not very long ago) were delivered over the rail at Baltimore, either Baltimore or Norfolk-Baltimore, I think.

Senator GORMAN. Oh, you are speaking of steel rails?

Mr. STEVENS. Yes, sir; they cost us either $26.50 or $26.75; and the American roads pay $28 at Pittsburg.

(The committee thereupon took a recess until 2.30 o'clock p. m.)

ISTHMIAN CANAL.

AFTER RECESS.

The committee met pursuant to the taking of recess at 2.30 o'clock p. m., Hon. Joseph H. Millard in the chair.

STATEMENT OF MR. JOHN F. STEVENS-Resumed.

The CHAIRMAX. Senator Gorman was asking Mr. Stevens some questions when we took a recess. I think he was asking him in reference to the cost of the equipment of the road.

Senator GORMAN. Yes; the construction and equipment of the road.

Mr. STEVENS. I took a note of it.

Senator GORMAN. You made a statement in relation to that and I did not quite understand your answer, Mr. Stevens, whether the Canal Commission and the railroad company had come to any definite understanding as to what proportion of expense for its equipment and construction should be borne by the Canal Commission.

Mr. STEVENS. Well, they have made divisions in their accounting. As I understand, they propose to charge the cost of the double-track construction to the Commission, both tracks to be used for the business of the Panama Railroad, its commercial business and handling the Commission's business, and the maintenance of both tracks to be assumed by the railroad company. I think, although I am not certain, that it has been ruled that the cost of dock construction shall be borne by the railroad company. I am not certain of that; I have not been advised, but that is my impression.

Senator GORMAN. You are in charge!

Mr. STEVENS. Yes; but I have not been advised what their ruling is in regard to it. Broadly speaking, I understand the proposition that all additional facilities in the line of additions, and that are regarded as improvements, by reason of the canal business, are to be charged to the Commission.

Senator GORMAN. Do you know what other service the railroad will render the Commission I have seen some statement that the supplies, the boarding of the men, has been assumed by the railroad company--that it is to take charge of that. What do you say about that?

. Mr. STEVENS. No; that is incorrect. The railroad company are now, and have for a great many years, been running what they call a commissary store at Christobal, or Colon, a store in the nature of a general store, from which they furnish to their own employees in the railroad company, and the general public to a certain extent, supplies. They are supplies that you could get in any general store. There have been several of those stores established in the Zone at different places, as branches of this commissary, by the railroad company, but

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