Senator ERVIN. And so the Attorney General can waive the requirement that he has been denied the right to register to vote.

Attorney General KATZENBACH. Within 90 days.

Senator ERVIN. And all he has to do in that case is show he is not registered.

Attorney General KATZENBACH. That is right.

Senator ERVIN. Well, there is no standard laid down here to determine when the Attorney General can or should waive that requirement. He does it at his unbridled discretion, does he not? Attorney General KATZENBACH. Yes; that is correct. like me to explain why that discretion was put in? Senator ERVIN. I think it might be helpful.

Would you

Attorney General KATZENBACH. The reason for it was this: that we ran into this situation where all the applicants or all the Negro applicants were simply being turned down or where a registrar said "I am going to try the literacy test whatever the law provides here."

We thought it was pointless to require every single person that wanted to vote, wanted to register to vote, to demean himself in that manner of being turned down by a man who had said publicly, who was performing in a way that so indicated that he would not register that person to vote. So the provision as put in to deal with the situ ation where the State official, the State registrar simply wasn't about to register people and permitted the Attorney General under those circumstances to waive an allegation that the person attempted to register when that would be fruitless.

Standard could be put in that the requirement of the latter allega tion may be waived by the Attorney General whenever he believed that it would be fruitless for the person to have applied for-sought the opportunity to register. I think that is what it means, anyhow. Senator ERVIN. Well, we just have another illustration

Attorney General KATZENBACH. And that would be unbridled discretion also.

Senator ERVIN. Yes, and we have another case where the Congress passes a law which says that the Attorney General nullifies a provision of law if he sees fit. In fact, it does not say he has to see fit but it gives him that power.

of

Attorney General KATZENBACH. Senator, I don't like, as long as I am in this position, having to make the determinations which you regard as unbridled. But frankly I don't know a different way dealing with it except the way that we have attempted. To go into court all the time and running into all those delays I think if you balance some discretion on the part of the Attorney General against repeated denials of the right to vote, people who are entitled to vote. it is better to let the Attorney General have a little bit of discretion and get some people voting.

Every election that goes past that vote is lost forever.

Senator ERVIN. Well, I think there are better ways of doing things I am not opposed to enforcement of the 15th amendmentAttorney General KATZENBACH. I know that.

Senator ERVIN (continuing). I propose before this thing is over to offer a substitute for the first part that I think is being practically as effective as this and would be far more applicable to local conditions and would also contain methods of fairly administering the

Attorney General KATZENBACH. I would like to add perhaps another reason why the Attorney General might waive that discretion. There may be some risk involved to a Negro going to register through his State registrar. We have two cases of assault in the State of Mississippi in that regard. One of them by a law enforcement official. Maybe both of them were. One was a registrar and one was a sheriff. In one instance a Negro was beaten up by the butt of a gun, struck across the face, staggered out of the front of the building and was arrested for disturbing the peace.

Senator HART. That was part of a trip coming to the district court in the District of Columbia.

Attorney General KATZENBACH. Yes, it was, Senator.

Senator ERVIN. Well, I hate to have the Constitution of the United States destroyed because of the sins of anyone who beats up a man unjustifiably anywhere. I think that can be handled in a better way, however, than giving the Attorney General power which cannot be reviewed by anybody.

You have been testifying a long time. I am inclined to recess if it is satisfactory to you. We hope to finish tomorrow, Mr. Attorney

General.

Attorney General KATZENBACH. Will we finish tomorrow, Senator? Senator ERVIN. When I have to take the Democratic part and the Republican part and the administration, it requires a certain amount of exploring and elaboration and elucidation.

Attorney General KATZENBACH. I am available to you as long as you want me here as a witness.

Senator DIRKSEN. My friend from North Carolina is fully capable of taking on both political parties and the administration.

Attorney General KATZENBACH. I know that, Senator.

Senator ERVIN. I have found that both political parties and the administration do not have very much difficulty overrunning me and I get behind the Constitution for protection.

I am sorry that we have retained you as long as we have.

be back tomorrow?

Can you Attorney General KATZENBACH. Yes, sir. I am available any time this committee wants me and even night sessions.

Senator ERVIN. Well, I think we are doing enough. Like the Scripture says, "Men love the days rather than the nights." I prefer not to go into night sessions.

We will take a recess and the committee will stand in recess until 10:30 tomorrow.

(Whereupon, at 4:55 p.m., the committee recessed to reconvene at 10:30a.m., Wednesday, March 24, 1965.)

VOTING RIGHTS

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 24, 1965

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY,
Washington, D.C.

The committee met, pursuant to recess, at 10:30 a.m., in room 2228, New Senate Office Building, Senator James O. Eastland (chairman) presiding.

Present: Senators Eastland, Johnston, Ervin, Fong, Hart, Kennedy of Massachusetts, Bayh, Tydings, Dirksen, Hruska, Scott, Miller, and

Javits,

Also present: Joseph A. Davis, chief clerk; Palmer Lipscomb, Robert B. Young, and Thomas B. Collins, professional staff members

of the committee.

Senator JOHNSTON. The committee will come to order. The Attorney General will be heard. I think he was being heard at the time we adjourned yesterday.

I think the Senator from North Carolina, Senator Ervin, was asking some questions. So you may proceed.

STATEMENT OF HON. NICHOLAS deB. KATZENBACH, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES

Attorney General KATZENBACH. Mr. Chairman.

Senator JOHNSTON. Yes.

Attorney General KATZENBACH. I have some statistics here, some of which were introduced yesterday, and I have put them in a more orderly form, and I have asked some of the people to get more statistics on this. I wonder whether I could submit these that I have for the record and leave it open for more statistics of a like nature.

Senator JOHNSTON. You may submit those for the record and also bring the others at a later date, later time, there being no opposition

to it.

Attorney General KATZENBACH. Thank you, sir.

(The material referred to follows:)

1 this is an estimate by the Bureau of Census as of Nov. 1, 1964, taken from a memorandum issued by the Department of Comm dated Sept. 8, 1964. No CB-M $3.

And on figures sirried by official State socroes to the Concessions Quarterly. I've for any mosty based on the official reports of the vanvas Sistes, at in some cases do not protract the solo sunda æges ret starod, dae to the lack of edective purging of voters who have Čair sumisar otherwise decome incl

("hes parant særs are based on the voting ser pepolation, ss of Nor. 1, 1964.

18 ŠER & 1256 or device se defined by sec 3 1 of the proposed Voting Rights Act of 1965. Idaho, Cach does not have a tender test, is a god mrs character" rarement. Some of the literacy tests S320 320 321 Vad mrs oʻstartet meg Li zatMĀ.