As I have just stated, we are all aliens originally in this country, and we have built up, in my opinion, the greatest country on the face of the earth.

We have always been in the habit of welcoming to our shores aliens and oppressed people from all over the world, but I think we have the just right when they come to this country to expect that they shall abide by our laws and live under our form of government and under our ideals of government. I do not say that in an intolerant manner. But as far as I know we have never in this country set up recruiting stations to solicit people to come to this country, and they must realize that when they come here they should live as we want them to live in this country, just exactly the same as I can welcome a guest in my house and expect him to abide by my way of living while he is in my house, and if he does not want to do that he is entitled to leave, and if he does not want to live the way that I want him to live while he is there, I certainly reserve the right to ask him to leave my house. And in effect we are just a big house in which we all live, and have a right to live as we see fit.

Now, then, I want to say to you gentlemen that I yield to no one in any respect as to the freedom of the press, the freedom of speech, or the Bill of Rights, but I likewise have no sympathy for those who come over to this country of ours, believing perhaps in the overthrow of our Government, coming over here for the express purpose of indulging in subversive activities, and then turn around and wrap themselves in the protecting folds of the Constitution as to the overthrow of this Government, but who are constantly crying for their rights under the Bill of Rights or the freedom of speech and the freedom of the press.

I think it is time in this country and it is time for this Congress to give careful consideration to such bills as we now have before us. I do not say this bill is perfect, but such bills as we now have before us give us the legal right to deal with those aliens who are now in this country.

Before I close I just want to tell you a little story based upon an illustration of what I have been talking about. When I went down to Panama on one of our Government boats, just prior to this session, I was not on that boat 5 minutes before a head seaman came into my cabin and in a raucous voice demanded, "We want you to talk to this crew." I said, "Give me time to get unpacked," and he said, "You are on the Merchant Marine Committee, and we want you to talk to this crew." I said, "All right."

I did talk to the crew about 2 days before we landed in New York. I was given a very nice introduction by that gentleman. He started out in some sort of a manner such as this, "Congressman, we are glad to have you here, because you are a member of the Merchant Marine Committee, and we also understand you are an owner, or a former owner, of ships on the Great Lakes, and we want you to know how the steamship help have been downtrodden by you, browbeaten," and so forth, and he gave me a very nice send-off.

They were very pleased to hear me after that send-off.

I talked to these gentlemen along the line of straight Americanism. I said, "I do not believe all that I see in the press, nor all that which is supposed to have emanated from the Dies committee, but I do want to make this statement to you, any of you boys who believe in any other forms of government, and if you prefer fascism to our form

of government, I would suggest that you get a boat and go on there and help Mussolini, who perhaps may need a little help, and if because of your belief you feel that you believe in nazi-ism, the Hitler form of government, then he could use you over there, and any of you that believe in communism, then go to Russia. I am of the belief that America is getting too small to use you other people who have beliefs. in other countries, and so we can very well get along without you, and you should go to the other country if you believe in some other form of government."

The reaction was great. In the first place, I went on the upper deck and I met two. people. The first one was an expert fur buyer, an Englishman, or—I beg your pardon-he was an Australian, and his wife was an Englishwoman, and he spoke nine different languages, and she spoke seven. He asked me the subject of my talk, what it had been, and I told him that it had been "Americanism." He said, "I do not understand exactly what you mean by 'Americanism'." I told him the gist of my talk.

He said, "Congressman, it is inconceivable to me that there should be anybody in America advocating any change in your form of government, when I have been one who has spent the last 4 years trying to get out of the oppressed country in which I lived and become a citizen of your country, and it is inconceivable to me that anybody in America should be advocating a change in your form of government."

It may also be interesting that there came to me the next day a knot of seamen, who called me aside, and they said, "Congressman, we do congratulate you on that speech. We know there are in our union, Communists, and they control the union, and we know that there are Communists on this boat, and who are expecting to sabotage this boat in case America gets in war. We cannot say anything about it. Their 'goon' squad would beat us up if we said anything about it. We are all at sea. We cannot vote the proper control of our union. We are glad to know some Members of Congress are aware of the fact, and we are looking to you for help. We want to follow the trade of seamen and the livelihood of seamen," and that was told to me on a vessel owned by the United States Government and operated by the Government.

That is about all I have to say, gentlemen.

Senator AUSTIN. Will you permit a question?

Mr. BRADLEY. Yes, sir; I certainly will, Senator.

Senator AUSTIN. Is it your interpretation of the present law that if an alien advocates a change in our form of government by any other means than that provided for in the Constitution he may be deported for it?

Mr. BRADLEY. Senator, I am not an attorney, so I could not give you a legal opinion; but I do say this: I believe that an alien, of course. prior to the time that he may want to become a citizen of this country, has a perfect right to his own opinions, but I believe until he is a citizen of the United States he has no right to tell us how our Government should be run.

I consider this, Senator: I heard the statement made a few minutes ago, which is made constantly, about the rights of aliens, but I believe that aliens should live in this country as we deem that they should live, and if they are not satisfied with that, they are entitled to return to the land of their choice.

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Senator AUSTIN. I would like to ask you one more question. Let us assume that the present law gives the power and authority to deport any alien who advocates a change in our form of government in any other way than that prescribed in the Constitution itself. In that event then H. R. 4860 would catch any alien who advocated any other method of change, would it not?

Mr. BRADLEY. I would think so; yes, sir.

Senator AUSTIN. That is all.

Senator HUGHES. Thank you, Congressman.

Mr. BRADLEY. Thank you very much, Senator.

Senator HUGHES. I am very glad to have had you here.

We will next hear from Henry H. Collins, Jr., national legislative chairman, Descendants of the American Revolution.

STATEMENT OF HENRY H. COLLINS, JR., NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE CHAIRMAN, DESCENDANTS OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION

Mr. COLLINS. Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, I should like briefly on behalf of our other chapters and the national organization to supplement the testimony previously given before your committee by the president of our local chapter, Mr. Hunt. The Descendants of the American Revolution is an organization devoted to carrying out in practice today those principles for which our forefathers fought 165 years ago. For this reason we are wholeheartedly opposed to this present bill, H. R. 4860.

Among those principles were hospitality to immigrants, who joined with citizens in settling the country, and freedom of speech for immigrant and citizen alike. Remember the language of the first amend

ment:

Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The term is "people" not "citizens."

The Dempsey bill violates both of these principles. It divides the residents of this country into two classes: (1) Aliens and (2) citizens, and it denies to the first of these classes the right of free speech. Since the Constitution guarantees free speech to citizens and aliens alike, it is clear, either that the bill is unconstitutional, or else that a fundamental right that today would be taken from the alien might tomorrow be withdrawn from the citizen.

Objection is often made to allowing strangers within our gates to advocate changes in the structure of the house that shelters them; but the visitor of yesterday is the resident of today, and the citizen of tomorrow; and from the beginning of our country's history, citizen and alien alike have joined to advocate those changes in our Government which have made it the more perfect instrument it is today.

Others have cited the gagged mouths and minds that must result from invoking a cloture on civic thought and making belief an improvement in our form of government a basis for deportation. The reorganization bill, woman suffrage, the child labor amendment in our day; the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence, the very Constitution itself in the days of our forefathers-belief in, or advocacy of, any one of these would have been punishable by deportation had the Dempsey bill been then in effect. How many of our grandfathers

and grandmothers would have been sent back under its provisions to the lands of terror and tyranny from which they had fled to our shores? Two of mine would, or I would not now be eligible for membership in this organization which I represent.

It is sometimes said that those who advocate overthrow of the Government by force and violence should be punished. But Justice Brandeis, I believe, set it forth that unless this advocacy constituted a "clear and present" danger to organized society it was neither treasonable nor contrary to the Bill of Rights. Indeed common sense informs us that it is far better to have dissident groups working in the open where their views, if erroneous, may be combatted and corrected in the full light of publicity and criticism than to have them thrust underground into illegality. Once forced into hiding and secrecy, the most fantastic theories will luxuriate and gain converts > in the dark atmosphere of conspiracy theories that, exposed to the open view and study of mankind, might soon wither and lose all public support.

Surely no one in this room thinks that, in spite of recent military adventures, the Government of the German Reich is more stable than our own. Yet in Germany no criticism of the form of government is tolerated and outward uniformity of opinion prevails under the swish of the rubber hose and the shadow of the executioner's axe. But every one knows that the core of the Fascist state is rotten, and that dissension and intrigue have already nourished a hydra of underground opposition.

In our country on the other hand one would think that nothing but criticism of the Government was allowed. On any newsstand three journals attack the Government where one supports it and all forms of minority opinion are allowed to wield such influence as their ideas can command. Yet who would say that contrasted with that of Germany our Government is not infinitely more stable, rooted as it is in the masses of the American people, and with its various branches flourishing or withering under the alternate sunshine or storms of the public will.

Finally let us remember that we make a mistake in ever singling out one group of our people as culprits. Aliens found, founded, and built up this country. Von Steuben, Pulaski, and Lafayette fought for its independence. We, descendants of the Revolution, in which they strove, cannot go back on the memory of their comrades in arms. Let us therefore defeat this bill so that we may still say, as does the bronze invitation on the Statue of Liberty:

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores. Send these the homeless, tempesttossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Senator HUGHES. There has been handed to me a letter addressed to Senator Schwellenbach, by the chairman of the National Emergency Conference for Democratic Rights, including an open letter to the United States Senate signed by a number of people, some of whom have testified here, and the Senator asked that that become part of the record.

Senator AUSTIN. You might have that a part of the record, and say that it was requested on behalf of Senator Schwellenbach, and it was noted that it had already been endorsed by some one else.

Senator HUGHES. Do you have anything from the American Mechanics?

Senator AUSTIN. Yes.

Senator HUGHES. There is a letter here addressed to the Secretary of the committee, from the Junior Order United American Mechanics, advocating the bill, which is as follows:

PHILADELPHIA, PA.,

April 24, 1940.

DEAR MR. WATSON: I am handing you a short letter, containing the_views of the National Council, Junior Order United American Mechanics on the Dempsey bill, H. R. 4860.

As I stated to you yesterday, on the occasion of my call, we will appreciate it if you will have this letter read, for the information of the subcommittee, when it meets Thursday, at 10:30 a. m., also to have the same incorporated in the printed hearings of the subcommittee.

Assuring you it was a pleasure to get acquainted with you, and thanking you for every courtesy, I am

Sincerely yours,

JAMES L. WILMETH,
National Secretary.

PHILADELPHIA, PA.,

April 24, 1940.

SENATE COMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION,

Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C. (Attention Mr. Watson.)

GENTLEMEN: Representing the National Council, Junior Order United American Mechanics, a patriotic, fraternal organization, which was organized May 18, 1853, which has lodges and branches in practically all the States of the Union, I wish to speak a word in support of H. R. 4860, which I understand is known as the Dempsey bill. This is an act, proposing to amend the existing law to provide for the exclusion and deportation of aliens who advocate the making of any changes in the American form of government. We take it that this means any subversive change in our form of government.

The National Council, Junior Order United American Mechanics, in its 32 State councils, and lodges generally throughout the United States, are heartily in favor of this proposed bill, H. R. 4860. We feel, at this time, that a curb should be placed on ambitious aliens and foreigners who come here, and who advocate destructive changes in the American form of government, which we have inherited from our ancestors. We also feel that the proper place for such radicals as would have the temerity to attempt these changes is the countries whence they came, and that the quicker such alien residents be deported, the better. We are also heartily in favor of the exclusion of those who propose to come to our country, whose records show that they are extreme radicals or that they are in the employ of those governments who are seeking to extend totalitarian and other subversive forms of government throughout the world.

Please record the Junior Order United American Mechanics as fully endorsing H. R. 4860.

Respectfully yours,

JAMES L. WILmeth,
National Secretary.

Senator AUSTIN. Yes; I have a copy of that.

Senator HUGHES. That is all that I think that I have. Have you something more?

Senator AUSTIN. No.

Senator HUGHES. Everybody has been notified of this hearing. I presume that the hearing is closed, or do you think that we should follow up this hearing?

Senator AUSTIN. I would leave the record open so that Senator Schwellenbach's statement can be inserted and taken into the record.