Professor SCOTT: The session will be concluded by Mr. Carris. DISCUSSION LEWIS H. CARRIS, A.M. Assistant Commissioner of Education of the State of New Jersey LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: I have known Dr. Dean for a number of years; and I had no fear when I heard that he was summoned to our State to talk to us about the factors which should enter into a state scheme for vocational education; and I am sure you will all agree with me since you have heard him talk and have heard his program that we can place him as a progressive among educational philosophers. We can count him as an iconoclast in a congregation of worshipers of traditional idols, an eclectic among healers of our social wounds. Yet the principles he has laid down are advocated by many, but too often in service that is merely a verbal service and not a service of deeds. Most of the planks in his platform for the vocational party are found also in the platforms of people in other educational parties; and while we subscribe, many of us, to the provision that we believe there should be a reorganization of education, and while we sign our names sometimes to the petitions which are circulated to provide by referendum proper educational procedure, when we retire to the secrecy of the election booth too often we put a cross at the top of the column which makes us vote a straight ticket according to the educational faith of our forebears. I can contribute to this discussion only a few axioms or a few corollaries, which prove the truth of the theorem, which may be stated: "There is a need for a state program for vocational education." The axioms are, first: "Society is undergoing a rapid change by transferring responsibility for the welfare of the individual from the individual to the state." That is evident in Mr. Dean's discussion of the necessity of legal enactments which may modify the relationship of the worker to his job. Witness the recent Federal legislation, child legislation, eight hour law, and the proposed law for Federal aid in vocational education. The second axiom is: "Only as a state accumulates wealth can it set up an adequate program for any kind of education." There is no disputing the fact that the state is rapidly securing wealth not only in its own right but also in the control of the wealth of private individuals and public corporations. Service of any kind is becoming more and more a public service. And as the quality of the service is becoming recognized the responsibility of the state for the use of its accumulated wealth is becoming more and more evident. Third: "The welfare of a democracy depends on the intelligence of its individual citizens." This axiom has been stated times without number since the rise of modern republics, but it is only in recent history that we are coming to recognize what constitutes true intelligence. The changes from the absolute monarchy through an oligarchy, a limited monarchy, to a republic have been slower than is believed. The program for vocational education along the unified plan proposed by Mr. Dean gives us the true means of promoting intelligence among the citizens of our nation. So much for the axioms. A few of the corollaries which seem to me to grow out of the demonstration which was brought to the Q. E. D. so successfully are: First: "Cost of education will be increased many fold." I do not think we have yet begun to realize what is to be the cost of any kind of effective education. We certainly have not begun to realize it as far as elementary education is concerned. We must be ready more and more to preach in season and out of season that if we are to educate the youth of the land for the right kind of citizenship, we must take more and more of our wealth to do it efficiently. I think that in vocational education the time will come when we will be made to recognize more and more the true value of learning. We must of course assume the responsibility -the state-but not alone: we must give education with as little cost as we can and give it efficiently. Still we must take more and more money to carry this on. The second corollary: "In the carrying out of any program such as has been suggested here there must be a considerable time for experimentation." None of us knows yet just what is the right type of vocational school; just what shall be the standard for admission; just when the pupils will select the programs they are to follow; just when the state is to have control of the education and through what years. At the present time the state must view with much charity and with the greatest approbation the efforts of the various communities which are endeavoring to solve the problems of vocational education by themselves. Third: "We must open the doors of opportunity for all the people." I am a very firm believer in the necessity of extending general education through the later stages of life. I will give just one example to illustrate this corollary. In a kind of education which I think that the state and the local communities should be actively interested in. I refer to the education which can be secured by the young man who is on the job; and the young woman who is working. In talking the other day with a city superintendent who is advocating a part time scheme of education, I said to him: "Why don't you try a new scheme?" He was talking about having machinists come in on the part time plan. That is not a new scheme. I said: "Why don't you go out in your city and try by active effort to find out if there are not young men in your city who can work on part time and who can come in and extend their general education?" I think that by working out that program it would be possible for the boy who can earn his living by working two or three hours in the morning to come two or three hours a day to school, and in the course of six years get his high school education. That is just one example of opening the door of opportunity for the boy who has left school. The fourth: "Any program for vocational education in the state should provide for a continuous survey on the part of the state." One of the splendid things about the Smith-Hughes bill which is before the present Congress is that it provides for the appropriation of a considerable amount of money to study needs for vocational education in the United States. This College could play an important part in helping the State in carrying on work of this kind. I have given you these three or four axioms and three or four corollaries, which seem to me to be a part of any discussion with reference to this program. I want to acknowledge that I have been guilty many times of using some of the phrases Dr. Dean has so severely assailed this afternoon. Though I think that you will see that later in his paper he acknowledged that they were more than half true. Stating it in the positive way, I know that Dr. Dean and I are in accord in these particulars: We do know that pupils are leaving school altogether too early. Pupils are not held in school as long as is desirable. We know it is desirable that all the avenues of sense should be used in education and that the sense of touch as expressed in handling materials should have its fair share of attention. We do know we must place our children when they reach the age for participation in the world's affairs in the right place. We do know we need boys on the farm; we do know that it is a problem to find the boy who likes to work on the farm. The state needs skilled laborers to develop its wealth. We know it has not given its share of attention to educating girls. And so on through the list. But in all of this program for vocational education the state desires to promote general welfare and prosperity; and we need to formulate such a program and we need to be patriotic and sincere and earnest in helping it to carry out this program. Such a policy does not bring about the segregation of people into classes but promotes the welfare of the entire community with equality of opportunity for all. |